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USA Politics Thunderdome

Hotdogs

Leeroy Jenkins
pilot
Funny how those concerns don't come up when they lobby for tasking. Hell yea we can take that tasking, because if we don't the Navy/AirForce will! Never mind how thinly we're stretched, any chance at operational relevance! Why do we have land-based forward deployed Hornets? #Relevance!

Given how broken our legacy fleet was in the last few years, our leadership signed us up for more work. You can't lay that at Congress' feet. The institution has regularly rewarded those who make their readiness "work" (and passed on the risk to their juniors) and shat on those who honestly and bravely said "I can't fly, my planes are broken." at cost to their careers.

Didn't someone just write something about beautiful lies?
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-us-military-has-an-integrity-problem-2015-3

Saying no is how we convey an honest demand signal, but it's in no one's personal interest to do so. Telling Congress the troops are bearing the risk is a cop-out. The right signal is "We couldn't deploy MRF-D because the shitters are down" and we might have an honest resourcing decision. But that might open up the door to undesired outcomes like, "that's ok, we didn't need that anyway." So instead, they go to Congress hat in hand with a bullshit "for the troops" rationale.

So yea, from this grumpy vet, fuck 'em.

As for defending individuals alleged of abuses - isn't that how it works when you vouch for someone that you're putting your credibility on the line?
Dude. This is stuff that is brought up in congressional hearings, interviews with defense officials, and news articles ad nauseam. That's about all I'll say because your comments are full of hubris and melodrama. I chose to not aim my frustrations at senior officers, and you do. There's nothing wrong with that, I just think it's short sighted.

As far as Kelly, I'd be willing to bet that a great deal of senior officers or polticians have laid their credibility on the line and had it backfire on them. It doesn't change my assessment of somebody's character and honor. The blame lays with the individual, and not the guy who vouched for him before.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
he supported some one that he wasn't aware was actually a complete dirtbag.
Everyone knows about these people. Everyone. They’re the creeps, the people who stand a little too close, the people who work hard to maintain plausible deniablity over and over again.

To say otherwise is to turn away from abuse happening right in front of you.
 

Griz882

Well-Known Member
pilot
Saying no is how we convey an honest demand signal...
Bull shit. Saying “no” has never been in the job description.
I can see it now: Sorry FDR, no to defending Wake Island since we only have rifles from 1903....No deal Chester, we ain’t defending Midway with Brewster Buffaloes...Nope, Mr. Truman, we will not hold the line at Chosin because the reservists aren’t trained to the WWII standards.

Your squadron commanders, your wing commanders, your HQMC all tell their tales of woe and need and Congress hands them what pennies they hand them. With that you do your job. Saying “no,it isn’t enough” has never been how it works.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
Bull shit. Saying “no” has never been in the job description.
I can see it now: Sorry FDR, no to defending Wake Island since we only have rifles from 1903....No deal Chester, we ain’t defending Midway with Brewster Buffaloes...Nope, Mr. Truman, we will not hold the line at Chosin because the reservists aren’t trained to the WWII standards.

Your squadron commanders, your wing commanders, your HQMC all tell their tales of woe and need and Congress hands them what pennies they hand them. With that you do your job. Saying “no,it isn’t enough” has never been how it works.
That’s not exactly an accurate comparison. Huge difference in saying no in a full on war compared to what’s going on now.
 

Griz882

Well-Known Member
pilot
That’s not exactly an accurate comparison. Huge difference in saying no in a full on war compared to what’s going on now.
What qualifies as a “full on war?” Does it need to be fought in Europe or the Pacific to be “full on?” Were Korea and Vietnam “full on” or “half on?” If we assume that Iraq during the invasion was “half on” would we consider Syria “one-eighth on” or less? I did combat tours in Afghanistan (twice) and Iraq (twice), on the ground with all the “Old Corps” shit happening around me. Good friend roasted to death in about three seconds by an IED, snipers, fire fights...seemed pretty “full on”from my perspective, but hey I’m kind of self-obsessed.

All joking aside, Congress decides how much money you get, not the generals. Any officer, at any grade, who said “I simply can’t make do with that,” isn’t going to be awarded for honesty in either his/her career or in history. You are in the war making business and your generation is far, far from the first to have to deal with budget shortfalls that impact your readiness or your ability to win...but somehow those of the past did and I imagine yours will also if needed.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
Having flown a combat deployment in Afghanistan, I have no problem admitting it was far from a full on war. What exactly a “full on war” is... well that’s difficult to say exactly. It would have still sucked just as bad if one of those rocket attacks had landed on my bed.

A lot of the current conflicts seems to involve remaining relevant and justifying funding. Was it nice to have a carrier supporting Afghanistan? Sure. Was it the most efficient way to do it, and best for our long term defense strategy?
 

Griz882

Well-Known Member
pilot
You make a great point @Treetop Flyer. I don’t have the answer about an efficient long term strategy. If the flag officers were to ask me I would say the F-35 isn’t a smart investment in out long term strategy...but then again they never asked and there is a good chance I would be wrong. My point is that for all the ass-holeishness of Rumsfeld’s “you go to war with the military you have” it is fundamentally true. We can’t effectively use the past as a solid measure and we certainly can’t see the future.

As for you...I am glad those fucking 122s missed!
 

picklesuit

Shit, I'm lost again...
pilot
Contributor
Sounds like someone has spent a good deal of time on their knees during office hours.

Keep on carrying that water, boy.
Once again your repartee is patently homophobic and borderline racist. I’m not sure what purpose your comments serve, other than to continue the public devaluation of your opinion here.

Maybe take a second, ask yourself:
Does my comment contribute to the conversation?
If the answer is “no” then ask yourself:
Is it at least witty or smart?
If that answer is also “no” you might want to reconsider hitting “Submit”.

Pickle
 

RadicalDude

Social Justice Warlord
None
Contributor
Once again your repartee is patently homophobic and borderline racist. I’m not sure what purpose your comments serve, other than to continue the public devaluation of your opinion here.

Maybe take a second, ask yourself:
Does my comment contribute to the conversation?
If the answer is “no” then ask yourself:
Is it at least witty or smart?
If that answer is also “no” you might want to reconsider hitting “Submit”.

Pickle
Pickle, my comment is neither racist nor homophobic. The implication that he loves generals so much that he blows them is not anti-gay, and insinuating that he carries water for men who care little for his well-being, much like a slave, is not racist. Simply referencing cultural tropes in context is not inherently bigoted. I realize it’s a subtle distinction, and you’re working with limited brainpower, so I’m not gonna waste any more time explaining to you why.

As for your posting advice: if you were to apply that to your own writings, you’d have about 5 posts on this website. So please kindly go jerk off your horse or something, good sir!