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USA Politics Thunderdome

Discussion in 'Main Forum' started by Randy Daytona, Jan 30, 2017.

  1. pilot_man

    pilot_man No longer the biggest Hornet asshole on AW. None

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    Lying to your boss? Sure, that's bad.

    Possibly violating a 218 year old law that has never been prosecuted and probably wouldn't hold up to a SCOTUS ruling? Meh.
     
  2. Hotdogs

    Hotdogs Leeroy Jenkins None

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    I was under the impression he got canned for work place climate issues. Not procedural legal errors.
     
  3. RadicalDude

    RadicalDude Social Justice Warlord None Contributor

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    I read that the impression was that he has "difficulty working within an organization." The facts here seem to bear this out.

    As to pilot_man's post... Flynn doesn't get to decide what's legal and not. And I have a hard time believing you'd actually advocate for the type of actions the Logan Act prohibits. It was dissgraceful when Nixon did it, and still is when Flynn does it.

    But I digress.
     
    zpatman likes this.
  4. Flash

    Flash SEVAL/ECMO Super Moderator None Contributor

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    He got canned for several reasons, not working well with others was one but there were management and basic philosophical issues as well some of which cropped up again in his short tenure as NSA. He is one of those folks who kicked ass at a certain level, for him it was as the JSOC J2, but didn't do so well the further up the ladder he moved.

    Edit: Good Op-Ed piece on Flynn.

    The Logan Act would be pretty hard to prosecute for several reasons not the least of which would be trying to pin down whether he actually violated it and can it be proved in court.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  5. RadicalDude

    RadicalDude Social Justice Warlord None Contributor

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    I don't think he belongs in jail, just for sure not on the NSC.
     
  6. jmcquate

    jmcquate Well-Known Member

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    I know that he had contempt for Obama's NSC lamenting the "lack of adults in the room". Flynn didn't work well with others, when those others weren't in uniform. Which is a bad fit for NSC, and why the spooks aren't fans of his.

    What Trump needs right know is the counsel of a trusted confidant who can tell him NO. Unfortunately, that person doesn't exist.
     
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  7. Beans

    Beans *1. Loins... GIRD None

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    So a public servant at a high level does something quite inappropriate and possibly illegal. We all sensibly decide that we shouldn't be sending that person to jail, and the fact that they lost their job and have a tarnished name is decided to be sufficient. OK.
     
  8. RadicalDude

    RadicalDude Social Justice Warlord None Contributor

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    I'm confused. Are you drawing Hillary parallels or arguing he should be prosecuted or neither. Tough to read your tone.
     
  9. Beans

    Beans *1. Loins... GIRD None

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    It's more like an anti-parallel w/ HRC. No one's shouting "lock him up!" (granted, there are bipartisan calls for further investigations in to other people.) He did dumb and dishonorable things. Lost job and has gone away. I think the fact that most people without the title "POTUS" or "guy who hosts Hannity" are ok with this is notable.
     
  10. Recovering LSO

    Recovering LSO Suck Less Super Moderator Contributor None

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    Cross post from "Professional Reading Dropbox"

    http://mwi.usma.edu/profession-arms-can-take-michael-flynns-example/

    FTA: "For myself, and myself alone, I believe our traditions can suffer one Michael Flynn, yet worry we could not survive a second without severe erosion of those foundational traditions. For such cases, my sense is this threat is so grave and the need to deter similar actions so great that the Profession of Arms should consider morally justified censure—a symbolic withdrawal of honorific titles from offending individuals, as was done in other eras. Such behavior demands serious consequences; we ought to at least consider a tangible professional punishment."
     
  11. Flash

    Flash SEVAL/ECMO Super Moderator None Contributor

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    There is a difference in 'being ok' with what he did and questioning whether something illegal happened. Even with the gusher of leaks about this there is not much detail at all about what Flynn talked to the Russian Ambassador about other than generalities. For him to have actually broken the law he would have likely had to have made promises or explicitly laid out some quid pro quo, neither of which is evident in what has been made public so far. I think a prosecution of Flynn, given the info so far, would be as difficult and fraught as one would have been of Clinton.

    I think a more interesting part of the story is that the administration chose to keep Flynn on for almost 2 weeks after being informed about the content of the call, either because of a distrust of the info provided or trust in Flynn's denials anything untoward happened or a combination of the two.
     
  12. Randy Daytona

    Randy Daytona I want rock n roll - yes I do. Super Moderator None

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    FYI.
    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/306210-10-senate-seats-that-could-flip-in-2018
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_elections,_2018

    Be careful what you wish for, according to David Graham at The Atlantic.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/american-deep-state-trump/516780/

    The problem is that when a deep state pushes too far, it can undermine itself and end up empowering that which it seeks to prevent...They might empower an unaccountable intelligence agency, with dangerous long-term effects; or they might inspire such a backlash from Trump and his allies in Congress that he works to dismantle the bureaucratic system, removing an essential constraint on the president’s power.


    Any thoughts on the comments SecDef Mattis made about NATO?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-on-defense-spending/?utm_term=.3afa66533fef

    Defense Secretary Mattis issues new ultimatum to NATO allies on defense spending

    Currently, just five of NATO’s 28 countries spend at least 2 percent on defense: the United Kingdom, Estonia, Poland, Greece and the United States. Major members of the alliance that do not include France (1.78 percent), Turkey (1.56), Germany (1.19), Italy (1.11) and Canada (.99), according to NATO figures.
     
  13. Flash

    Flash SEVAL/ECMO Super Moderator None Contributor

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    There was also this:

    Mattis Rejects Closer Military Ties With Russia as He Reassures NATO

     
  14. Recovering LSO

    Recovering LSO Suck Less Super Moderator Contributor None

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    You rationalize/justify/excuse however you want. I think it's telling that a longstanding darling of the "right" had this to say:

    “A systematic effort to invalidate and delegitimize all the institutions, governmental and nongovernmental, that create the factual basis for action . . . so they won’t push back against arbitrary moves.” - Gen (ret) Michael Hayden.
     
    Flash likes this.
  15. Flash

    Flash SEVAL/ECMO Super Moderator None Contributor

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