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UAVs, not just an Air Force gig anymore

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
JSF as Last Manned Fighter? UCAS for my friends??

I was watching "America's Hangar", about the Air and Space museum, on the Smithsonian Channel tonight. One of the curators, a former Marine fighter pilot, made a statement that he thought that the JSF was, in his opinion, probably going to be the last manned fighter.

I know UAV's are getting more attention nowadaysmbut the last manned fighter? In my opinion, I think that's a pretty bold statement to make. Who knows what's on the planning board though. Hell, twenty years from now we could be on Mars.

Anyways, I just can't imagine the military getting totally away from manned fighters. Thoughts?
 

badger16

Well-Known Member
None
I don't know what the expected(anticipated) service length of the JSF is, but if it does go for a good 30+ years the progression of technology, if it is as great as it was in the last 30 years, would make it possible for the JSF to be the last manned fighter. I mean think wright borthers to the P-51 to the F-86/ centruy series fighters to the -16/-15/-14 to the Raptor/JSF. These are huge steps in an average of 30 years, give or take. Let me just say PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD I HOPE NOT!!! but if you think about it...its not that crazy of an opinion.
 

OneBadSSS

FY08 STA-21 Pilot Selectee/Currently at ODU
I have heard this theory as well and while I think it would be a shame, it does sound like the direction the government would be pushing the military toward. Reason being is $$$, it always comes down to the almighty dollar. If you think about it, replacing manned planes with UAVs that have the same tactical capabilities would save the Navy and Marine Corps millions in pilot training costs and probably reduce the over all manning requirements in the aviation sector, which would save them millions more in salaries for those pilots and others associated with the aircraft. Granted this is just MHO and merely spectulation!!
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I have heard this theory as well and while I think it would be a shame, it does sound like the direction the government would be pushing the military toward. Reason being is $$$, it always comes down to the almighty dollar. If you think about it, replacing manned planes with UAVs that have the same tactical capabilities would save the Navy and Marine Corps millions in pilot training costs and probably reduce the over all manning requirements in the aviation sector, which would save them millions more in salaries for those pilots and others associated with the aircraft. Granted this is just MHO and merely spectulation!!

It's not the "government" pushing the military at all. Air Force and Navy embarked on the J-UCAS path (with DARPA) all on their own. As it stands now, the upper tier UAVs (at least in Air Force "doctrine") are flown by rated aircrew (that includes Navs) so you're not saving on salary side. You do save on being able to construct an airframe without any volume or trades for human occupation.

Of course, USAF was making pronouncements about JSF being last manned fighter until they bailed out of J-UCAS (not because they didn't believe, but they needed to put priority on funding F-22 fixes and replacing their tanker fleet). Navy is now continuing the J-UCAS legacy with UCAS-D, which IS NOT INTENDED FOR OPERATIONAL USE, but will undergo CV trials in FY11to demonstrate:

- Carrier Air Traffic Control Area Operations
- Launch Performance
- Arrested Landing Performance Including Approach, Waveoff and Bolter
- Deck Operations
- Supportability
- CV Integration of Mission Control Segment (MCS)
- UCAS interfaces to Primary Flight Control (PriFly), Landing Signal Officer (LSO), and Carrier Air Traffic Control Center (CATCC)

Both Boeing and Northrop Grumman submitted proposals for the $1B+ demonstration effort in Spring of 2007 and the decision was made in late summer to go with the Northrop Grumman proposal. UCAS-D RFP did not even specify weapons capability, but both teams included weapons bays in their designs (each is leveraging their work on their J-UCAS demonstrators). ICAS-D will have an inherent ISR capability, but it is only intended to be a demonstrator to see if technology is mature enough to work the areas listed above and the mission need exists to proceed to a full mission capable UCAS-N platform that would bring survivable and persistent strike/ISR capability to the Carrier Air Wing environment.

So, watch that space for developments.....and consider whether you would want to go on cruise as a UCAS pilot yet never leave the ship to "fly" your missions......
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Next step: plugging your head into the drone and trying to discover the truth about the Matrix.
 

FLYTPAY

Pro-Rec Fighter Pilot
pilot
None
So, watch that space for developments.....and consider whether you would want to go on cruise as a UCAS pilot yet never leave the ship to "fly" your missions......
I think it would be good pennance for perdiem pilfering P-3 pukes :D
 

squeeze

Retired Harrier Dude
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Why bother even going on the boat. The Predators are flying missions in Iraq with pilots sitting in Tonopah. They're up the same nets with satellite comms and everything. Bastards.

As far as a strike and ISR capability go, there's really no logical (note: this does not include 'but I want to FLY') reason not to develop UCAVs -- they could do the same missions w/o risk of life and likely be a stealthier, longer-range, "day one" weapon that exceeds current capabilities. CAS, on the other hand, is a whole new can o' worms.
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Why bother even going on the boat. The Predators are flying missions in Iraq with pilots sitting in Tonopah. They're up the same nets with satellite comms and everything. Bastards.

But they still have pilots in the local Launch Support Elements that do the take-off and landings so the Navy CONOPS would eliminate the duplicity.
 

LoneSailor

Registered User
Speaking of the JSF.. what's the status on it anyway? Last I remember it was way overdue and delayed because it was too heavy to even begin testing for catapult launches. Wasn't it supposed to have gone through catapult testing back in '06?
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Speaking of the JSF.. what's the status on it anyway? Last I remember it was way overdue and delayed because it was too heavy to even begin testing for catapult launches. Wasn't it supposed to have gone through catapult testing back in '06?

Weight was an issue for STOVL variant (not CV variant for Cat shots), but they've managed to work through that issue. CV variant will be last to conduct first flight and that not supposed to be until CY09 so cats and traps will be after that. Check out JSF official website for their official briefs and schedule.
 
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