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USN The Slow Death Of The Carrier Air Wing - Or a CSAR Threadjack

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
#91
Honestly curious. Has Navy rotary wing asserts ever been tasked with CSAR over the beach? Have they ever trained for it at Fallon or Red Flag?
Grenada was the last time the Navy did a CSAR though it was technically 'on the beach' instead of over it, it was an ad hoc rescue much like the entire operation. That mission and the entire history of CSAR are profiled in Leave No Man Behind: The Saga of Combat Search and Rescue, an excellent though lengthy book chronicling the history of US military CSAR from the very beginning to today.
 

Pags

Well-Known Member
pilot
#93
Honestly curious. Has Navy rotary wing asserts ever been tasked with CSAR over the beach? Have they ever trained for it at Fallon or Red Flag?
I’ve heard possibly apocryphal community stories of an “almost” in Serbia as well.

For large joint ops it just makes more sense to use the USAF. Organic CSAR only makes sense during USN only drive bys (if such a thing could still exist) and even then there’s need to be a workaround for the speed/distance problem such as was done in Vietnam by forward staging CSAR helos on boats closer to the beach.
 

ChuckMK23

Former H-46 Driver
pilot
#97
Back in the “old days,” as in Vietnam, it was HC-7. They were quite the team flying the HH-3 and UH-2 on several feet-dry rescues including one by Clyde Lassen that rated an MOH (only one awarded to a Navy rotor head in Vietnam). In 1975 the squadron was shifted to the reserves and became HC-9 who lasted until 1990.


Visited HC-9 at NASNI while a JG at '46 FRS. The aircraft were steam gauge HH-3A's and I remember one of the guys showing off his Sierra Hotel PVS-5's - VELCRO'd to the SPH-3 helmet visor cover. (when the rest of the world had moved to ANVIS). The paint scheme was cool. I remember that!
 

Jim123

molding (warping) the future of naval aviation
pilot
62(?) columns, not sure what a daisy wheel printer with 11 point Courier New (or whatever we were using in 1983) would have turned out... such formatting dissonance!
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Brother, can you not read? I just agreed with the man about ASW. I only mocked the way the Navy approaches the debate.
I can read. You stated the Navy is in search of a mission, specifically regarding ASW. I'm not sure what debate you think is occurring. Everyone wants ASW, and money is being directed to that effort, as you and Synix mentioned.

Now execution (in this case, integration, specifically of VP with the rest of the players) is another issue. Hopefully that will come with time.
 
I can read. You stated the Navy is in search of a mission, specifically regarding ASW. I'm not sure what debate you think is occurring. Everyone wants ASW, and money is being directed to that effort, as you and Synix mentioned.

Now execution (in this case, integration, specifically of VP with the rest of the players) is another issue. Hopefully that will come with time.
The ASW mission is fairly topical considering this:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-russ...pursuers-and-a-deadly-new-cold-war-1508509841
and
https://www.washingtonpost.com/vide...555caaeb8dc_video.html?utm_term=.e412a2c69d95

Just adding support. Though I think there is something to be said about saturation of capability. I guess the real question is does the Navy even need CSAR with all these other assets nearby willing to play? I'm not talking about PR because that seems like a given. Is this debate just about Navy HSC pilots wanting to do more than shuttle cargo?
 

hscs

Registered User
pilot
The ASW mission is fairly topical considering this:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-russ...pursuers-and-a-deadly-new-cold-war-1508509841
and
https://www.washingtonpost.com/vide...555caaeb8dc_video.html?utm_term=.e412a2c69d95

Just adding support. Though I think there is something to be said about saturation of capability. I guess the real question is does the Navy even need CSAR with all these other assets nearby willing to play? I'm not talking about PR because that seems like a given. Is this debate just about Navy HSC pilots wanting to do more than shuttle cargo?
No - according to Joint Personnel Recovery Agency, each service must maintain a capability to recover its own. Whether that is in Title X or not, CSGs have been outside of other asset coverage, and needs to rely on itself to solve the problem.
 

ChuckMK23

Former H-46 Driver
pilot
Interesting (albeit cheesy) video on development of Pave Low - This was 1978 and not long after Vietnam - and AF was implenting CSAR lessons learned and expanding a dedicated CSAR all weather platform - complete opposite of what the Navy did.