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SWO description, career paths, and other basic questions

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
It's a pretty good cross section- mostly NFO, but I think almost each of your communities is represented, save for C-2s.

So what you're saying is all the pilots are talking about how sweet it's going to be flying for Delta and Southwest like all their Bros and what they're going to do with their sep pay and how they're going to get back into flight currency while the FOs are trying to compete for Americas next top Nerd and are openly bitching that they have to put out to have a 1 in 3 chance to get promoted while most of the SWOtivators show up at 0900 and cut out at 1300 and will make O-4 as long as they still fog the mirror.
 
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azguy

Well-Known Member
None
I have no clue how easy/hard it is for a helo/P-3 pilot to get hired at Southwest, but they don't seem too easy going. My point is it's ironic that all of us SWOs at my command are pretty shocked by the "back stabbing," brown-nosing, and general asshattery of the aviators around here as we approach FITREP ranking boards.

And yes, SWOs don't have to sweat O-4, but that's not our fault...
 

AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
In the midst of all this bashing, I will say this; if you have a great CO, XO, and a good bunch of DHs, your first tour can be a lot of fun and you can learn a lot. I've had the pleasure to work for and with some great people within the SWO community and they are actively working to fix the problems, but it'll be a long while until all of the bad apples have retired to their cushy jobs out there on civie street.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
I have no clue how easy/hard it is for a helo/P-3 pilot to get hired at Southwest, but they don't seem too easy going. My point is it's ironic that all of us SWOs at my command are pretty shocked by the "back stabbing," brown-nosing, and general asshattery of the aviators around here as we approach FITREP ranking boards.

And yes, SWOs don't have to sweat O-4, but that's not our fault...

Numerous SWO retreads have identified that the VP community "is more SWO than SWO", so your story is believable if they're in it to win it.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
In the midst of all this bashing, I will say this; if you have a great CO, XO, and a good bunch of DHs, your first tour can be a lot of fun and you can learn a lot. I've had the pleasure to work for and with some great people within the SWO community and they are actively working to fix the problems, but it'll be a long while until all of the bad apples have retired to their cushy jobs out there on civie street.

Bashing?

Discussing SWOs in the Navy is like talking about lawyers on the outside. Everyone bitches about them, many of them hate their lives working in the industry, and some of those leave. A smaller number are driven and embrace the negatives of the life style and succeed, and no matter how much you openly say you don't like them, you're pretty happy when you get to deal with a competent one when you need them.
 

azguy

Well-Known Member
None
In the midst of all this bashing, I will say this; if you have a great CO, XO, and a good bunch of DHs, your first tour can be a lot of fun and you can learn a lot. I've had the pleasure to work for and with some great people within the SWO community and they are actively working to fix the problems, but it'll be a long while until all of the bad apples have retired to their cushy jobs out there on civie street.

Yeah, it'll be a long while...OK... I can tell by some of your posts that you are some seriously damaged goods. I'm genuinely sorry to hear that and I wish you the best of luck on the outside.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Based on the last few boards, I can't imagine too many places where due-course second tour 13xx JOs would be doing shore duty with SWOs. Is this a staff gig you're talking about?
 

CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Yeah, it'll be a long while...OK... I can tell by some of your posts that you are some seriously damaged goods. I'm genuinely sorry to hear that and I wish you the best of luck on the outside.

And I can tell by the tone of some of your posts that you're a self righteous douche. I honestly have no experience with SWOs being backstabbing as a whole, mainly because I haven't had the pleasure (?) of working with them for long enough periods. In both my sea tour and my shore tour I've experienced a couple backstabbers, but overall that doesn't mean every VP NFO/pilot is a backstabber and I would venture to say overall we're pretty collaborative, mainly because our airframe is a team sport. My experience with working with SWOs and seeing them in their natural environment as an LNO is that they're way too focused on administrative bullshit over tactical proficiency, but I can't and shouldn't characterize the entire community based on that.

I will judge your community, however, on the LT I ran into who didn't know the difference between NFO and pilot wings.
 

Rickard

New Member
First off, thanks for the helpful responses. As for career paths, what is the norm? Just keep climbing until maybe you're CO someday 30 years down the road? Or is there other ways to progress into a more combat related, tactical role?
 

AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
First off, thanks for the helpful responses. As for career paths, what is the norm? Just keep climbing until maybe you're CO someday 30 years down the road? Or is there other ways to progress into a more combat related, tactical role?

The norm, which is what the SWO community managers, placement officers, and detailers will all push you towards is the traditional two division officer tours, shore duty, then two department head tours, then shore duty, and then finally XO/CO fleet up. All of this should occur on board a DDG or CG and make sure you get plenty of AEGIS time.

But not everybody wants that and many will depart this path for a tour or two. There are some new programs available like the Weapons & Tactics Instructor (WTI) program that is in its infancy right now. You would still follow the original golden path to command but you get to go to a bunch of schools and become a subject matter expert (SME) in a particular part of Naval Warfare, be it Anti-Submarine Warfare, Mine Warfare, or Air-Missile Defense. There is also the Specialty Career Path (SCP) program that is designed to billet officers from all communities into a certain "pipeline" so that we can have warfare-qualified professionals in areas like Anti-Terrorism, Acquisitions, Finance, and the like. These officers give up command but will get detailed differently to different staff billets worldwide.

Be advised that both the SCP and WTI programs are new, weird, and non-traditional, and therefore their future is iffy and those who have been selected into them may or may not have vibrant SWO careers ahead of them because they have departed from the golden path of command.

There are also some new initiatives where you can take a break in the middle of your career for a year or two, but this is all brand spankin' new (I literally got the brief from PERS-41 himself about 2 months ago) and the kinks are not worked out. Also, they don't change the trajectory of your career towards command. I guess what I'm saying is, you're only really going to be tactical as a division officer and maybe on your first shore tour. After that your job becomes mainly administrative with some watchstanding thrown into it.

If your dream is to stay on the tactical level your entire career, go enlisted. The job of an officer is to be groomed to eventually rise to the level of the strategic so he or she can make those high level decisions. That's what all career development programs across all communities are based upon.

Yeah, it'll be a long while...OK... I can tell by some of your posts that you are some seriously damaged goods. I'm genuinely sorry to hear that and I wish you the best of luck on the outside.

I'm glad we could agree to disagree on the approach we want to take with mentoring aspiring officers and discussing possible pitfalls within the community. I've done my best to fix them and I know many others who have done their part to change things as well. But, I won't say we're perfect or anywhere close to fixing the issues that consistently cause us retention problems. I also won't pull the wool over people's eyes just because I'm freebasing the kool-aid. These aspiring officers should come in armed with all of the information. And if you've read a lot of my posts you've seen me discuss the good and the bad of the SWO community.
 

azguy

Well-Known Member
None
Based on the last few boards, I can't imagine too many places where due-course second tour 13xx JOs would be doing shore duty with SWOs. Is this a staff gig you're talking about?

Yes -- and I tend to agree that aviators here are definitely not "due course." Still, the FOs argue that they are still in the hunt if they receive a competitive EP here. What say you?
 

azguy

Well-Known Member
None
And I can tell by the tone of some of your posts that you're a self righteous douche.

Thanks. I've never heard that one before...

I will judge your community, however, on the LT I ran into who didn't know the difference between NFO and pilot wings.

Meh. We don't really care one way or the other. You all wear flight suits, brown shoes, and fly for a living. I may also be guilty of confusing the SUPPO surface pin for a SWO pin now and again, despite the f-ed up left collar device.
 

azguy

Well-Known Member
None
I'm glad we could agree to disagree on the approach we want to take with mentoring aspiring officers and discussing possible pitfalls within the community. I've done my best to fix them and I know many others who have done their part to change things as well. But, I won't say we're perfect or anywhere close to fixing the issues that consistently cause us retention problems. I also won't pull the wool over people's eyes just because I'm freebasing the kool-aid. These aspiring officers should come in armed with all of the information. And if you've read a lot of my posts you've seen me discuss the good and the bad of the SWO community.

Fair enough. I have not read a lot of your posts; I don't read/post here too often. I'm all for keeping it real, but you seem to have had a bad run of luck. It happens. I assume from you avatar that you're on, or were on, a PC. I hear that can be a rough life -- you're a better man than me for signing up for that level of suck.

I couldn't agree more that SWO has some issues it needs to work through. My point in this thread was that many communities in the Navy -- and many professions in general -- foster an uber competitive environment which incentivizes people to behave in a certain way. It happens, to a certain extent, with 30 JOs on a DDG; it also happens with aviators on shore duty; and I've heard that it happens in corporate offices. To proclaim that this is a "SWO trait" is simply asinine.
 

surfnturf88

New Member
I think one of the biggest issues I've seen so far after switching to the SWO side and with the Navy in general is training. It might vary from ship to ship, but on mine it seems like training and getting PQS signed off is not a priority. Yes I'm trying to drive my quals as they say but when everybody is too busy to sign PQS or they just sign off and don't explain anything then I'm questioning why I'm even here if nobody gives a crap. On the enlisted side it seems like many of the sailors don't learn a thing when they report to the ship from A school.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Yes -- and I tend to agree that aviators here are definitely not "due course." Still, the FOs argue that they are still in the hunt if they receive a competitive EP here. What say you?

They're the back of the pack if they're not in a community endorsed production tour or admirals aide tour. A generic staff lackey or brand x shore tour aren't going to win them a tremendous amount of favor, unless the selection rates go back to what they used to be.
 
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