Shore Duties

[sundevil_av8r]

I was just wondering how many aviators still fly on their shore duties? do the majority get positions instructing and what not or do most have non-flying assigments. i'm not looking for an exact number just a ballpark. also... i have been told that in the air force they were allowed to fly for currency if they had a desk job. so my second question is if you did get a non-flying assigment on your shore tour would the navy allow you to fly for currency?

 

[raptor10]

42

 

[winger]

The sheer number of possible paths your career can take in the Navy or Marine Corps make this almost impossible to answer. In the Air Force, you can pretty much map out what you are going to be doing, and if/what you are going to be flying. It's a cold, efficient personnel machine.

The Department of the Navy couldn't be more different. Some guys fly, some guys don't. Many Marines pick up a rifle and a radio and go be FACs. Some of each get to fly at the RAG, others at Pax river. Some get sent to the surface fleet as assistant air bosses, while others don the epaulet and herd stars around.

Bottom line: there is rarely, if ever, even a "ballpark" answer to questions like this pertaining to our line of work... and I'm willing to bet that most of the guys in the game like it like that.

Semper Fi and BEAR DOWN

 

[Brett327]

I was just wondering how many aviators still fly on their shore duties? do the majority get positions instructing and what not or do most have non-flying assigments. i'm not looking for an exact number just a ballpark. also... i have been told that in the air force they were allowed to fly for currency if they had a desk job. so my second question is if you did get a non-flying assigment on your shore tour would the navy allow you to fly for currency?

Depends on lots of things. I don't know what the percentage would be for people who have flying shore tours, but currency is a whole other issue. In my case, as with most, I suspect, the aircraft I flew on my fleet tour isn't in a geographically convenient spot for me to fly. Even though I've had a couple opportunities to fly during my shore tour (through my own effort and organization), there's no way for me to maintain currency, I would suggest that in the big picture, there's no reason to do so either. Second point - Even if I were close to where my aircraft are based, the amount of time, effort that would be required to maintain currency would make it a difficult proposition, not to mention the resources in flight hours that it would take away from whichever squadron was helping me out. Even if I were to meet basic currency requirements, I would hardly be able to maintain any sense of tactical proficiency. What I'm getting at is this: The Navy really has no reason or interest in keeping people current who don't need to be. There is a system in place within the RAG training syllabii for refresher training for those who have been out of the cockpit during their shore tours. If flying isn't part of your shore command duties, then you should probably not be focused on flying, but on whatever your other responsibilities are. Hope that helps put things in perspective.

Brett

 

[sundevil_av8r]

Yes it does Brett, thank you. I was just curious. A professor of mine who was an Air Force pilot said he flew the t-37 for currency while he wasn't in an operational squadron. he made it sound like he just flew them whenever they weren't being used and he had time. are tours 2 or 3 years?

 

[jmac12]

I've been in the fleet for about two years now, and in that time, every JO that has left the squadron (VFA) has has gone on to a flying billet. I don't want to say that taking orders in something other than a flying billet would be a career killer, but if you are out of the cockpit for 2.5 years for your shore tour, and then another two years for your disassociated sea tour, you are looking at 4.5-5 years without flying, which doesn't make you a real desireable choice for a department head. The exception to this might be the IA billets floating around right now. The way the Navy is driving everyone into the Admiral career path, you are afforded very little flexibilty early in your career. When you get to your disassociated sea tour, you seem to have a few more options, and obviously there are only a few flying billets available for that tour if you are not a patch wearer, which you won't be if you take non flying orders for your shore tour (CAG staff, ect). Just what I have seen in a fairly limited time in my community.

 

[bunk22]

Understanding how the career path of an aviator works (Navy wise) will give you an idea of when flying orders are in order. Your first shore tour is or should always be a flying tour. Those folks I've known who haven't flown, except for one exception, have asked for a non-flying tour. That's most likely going to hurt their long-term career though all of them were getting out anyway. After your DH tour, it's a bit more difficult to pick-up a flying tour and if so, it certainly isn't the best for one's career if command is in option. Hell, even for O-5 now days, a post DH tour for flying isn't considered a wise choice either. Now, for an aviator to fly (keep current) with non-flying orders, he/she would have to been stationed where they could fly and then get a waiver to fly. A prime example would be my boss, the former Strike O for CVW-5 and F-14 pilot who had been out of the cockpit for a while. He has non-flying orders but was granted a waiver to fly T-2C's with VT-86. He retires this year and is going the airline route so he was lucky to stay current within his current position.

 

[sundevil_av8r]

I've been in the fleet for about two years now, and in that time, every JO that has left the squadron (VFA) has has gone on to a flying billet.

thanks everyone. thats exactly what i needed. i should have worded my question differently. i want to fly as much as i can, if possible, and was wondering what the odds of not getting a flying billet on the shore tour were. sounds like most people fly for their first shore tour though. thank you.

so, what does a typical career plan look like? i know i have been told before but it was years ago. is it something like this?

api-primary-intermediate/advanced-rag-fleet-flying shore tour-fleet-flying shore tour again?-dissociated tour-...

i'm just trying to get an idea of how many years the typical aviator is in the air. 10-15 maybe? and during that time is it usually all flying? i know these are vague questions but the help has been great. thank you.

 

[BigIron]

^^ it depends on what platform you're in.

Helos seem to be the following: API-PRI/INT-ADV-FRS-1st SEA - 1st Shore (flying or some boondoggle), then some back to sea (WTI flying stuff), but most likely sea going staff, or diassociated tour, then it really depends on your timing. Some guys have a little time to go to War College, some guys (like myself) will go back immediately to a Department Head (flying) job.

 

[Brett327]

sounds like most people fly for their first shore tour though.

I wouldn't go that far. As others have said, it depends on a ton of variables, so I wouldn't count on it. There's a very real possibility that between your 1st shore and disassociated tours, you could be out of the cockpit for ~ 5 years. Believe it or not, you can get burned out on too much flying and need that shore/disassociated tour to recharge your batteries.

For reference, I just looked at an average of two year-groups in the Prowler community and ~40% of pilots and NFOs are in non-flying shore tours.

Brett

 

[MasterBates]

I'll try to test that burn out theory..

If I make DH, I will be flying for 14 years straight in 6 different aircraft...

 

[MasterBates]

Flight School Part 1- 1 year
RAG & HSL Tour- 4 years, 5 total
Flight School Part 2- 1 year, 6 total
RAG & C2 tour- 3.5 years, 9.5 total
2nd Shore- 2.5 years, 12 total (already been told I need/am going to VTs or RAG)
DH Tour 2 years, 14 total...

 

[Brett327]

Flight School Part 1- 1 year
RAG & HSL Tour- 4 years, 5 total
Flight School Part 2- 1 year, 6 total
RAG & C2 tour- 3.5 years, 9.5 total
2nd Shore- 2.5 years, 12 total (already been told I need/am going to VTs or RAG)
DH Tour 2 years, 14 total...

All that flying and no career to show for it. How's the C2/E2 DH screen rate?

Brett

 

[MasterBates]

All that flying and no career to show for it. How's the C2/E2 DH screen rate?

Brett

They let Bunky pass....

In all seriousness, its kind of irrelevant, since I am in VAW/VRC land now, and I was not going to screen for DH in HSL according to the front office.

Go to the new community, do my best, and if I can stay, cool. If not, then Shamu gets closed out of my retirement. Which is also cool.

 

[bert]

In most communities, DH screening is tighter than the cut to O-4. At last years board, plenty of folks picked up LCDR with little chance of screening for DH.