Sailor Sits During National Anthem on Base

[BigRed389]

Especially when NJP is not necessarily what it once was . . . a kick to the junk but not necessarily a career-ender. Big Navy is much less forgiving. In such a case, it's good to retain a CO's ability to put a Sailor all the way through DRB and XOI, have them sign the paperwork, hopefully put the fear of God into them that they might be well and truly fooked, bring them in to Captain's Mast, rip them up one side of the ready room and down the other . . . and then dismiss with a verbal admonishment.

If nothing else, if that fails, you know they're stupid or foolish enough that NJP is appropriate.

I'm generally in favor of other options to be exercised before NJP, but I don't really get the value of Mast without some form of punishment awarded through NJP.

COs shouldn't have to flame spray or put on a show (unless they're actually making an example of someone), that's XOI's job.

XOI gets the documentation required to establish pattern of misconduct if they choose to continue to fuck it up.

 

[SynixMan]

I'm generally in favor of other options to be exercised before NJP, but I don't really get the value of Mast without some form of punishment awarded through NJP.

COs shouldn't have to flame spray or put on a show (unless they're actually making an example of someone), that's XOI's job.

XOI gets the documentation required to establish pattern of misconduct if they choose to continue to fuck it up.

Stop applying logic to this situation. People's sensibilities and patriotism have been called into question and must be defended, no matter the cost.

 

[Hair Warrior]

This thread has a lot of good gouge about what a command can/should do with the sailor after her video.

I'd like your thoughts on left-of-bang (left-of-youtube).

i.e. If she felt this way, why join the Navy in the first place? Is the Navy attracting/ incentivizing the wrong applicants? Is the Navy's recruitment process sufficiently vetting applicants? If she's already through Great Lakes, is Great Lakes instilling the right values? etc.

I am not proposing the system has to be flawless. If the "throughput" of sailors from the street to the fleet is thousands each year, you are going to have some sort of bell curve/ variation. The question is how to dial it in to the right aperture.

 

[Brett327]

It blows my mind that some of you are comparing this to not having a haircut or boots polished. I pity the unit that gets to deal with this turd eventually.

It's only different in your eyes because you're passionate about the nature of the offense, right? Yes, her motives, misguided though they may be, are more malicious than someone who is lazy or careless about their grooming standards, but they're both failing to comply with a basic everyday regulations.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Disrespecting the flag and filming it to make a political statement is exactly the same as having long hair. Nailed it.

 

[BigRed389]

Disrespecting the flag and filming it to make a political statement is exactly the same as having long hair. Nailed it.

I think you're missing the point regarding the difference between how one may feel about an offense and what the UCMJ says about it...which is what I think Brett is trying to drive at.

If someone is in violation of Article 92, do you automatically go to ADSEP (if even legally possible in this case) or do you attempt lesser corrective measures first?

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I think you're missing the point regarding the difference between how one may feel about an offense and what the UCMJ says about it...which is what I think Brett is trying to drive at.

If someone is in violation of Article 92, do you automatically go to ADSEP (if even legally possible in this case) or do you attempt lesser corrective measures first?

It depends on what they did

 

[Randy Daytona]

Nothing will happen to her. According to the Navy Times, "“She is not being discharged or separated,” (spokesman) Meadows added. “She will be able to move on to her next duty station as planned.”

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Good discussion. I think some people are instantly inclined to think a severe punishment is appropriate because they don't like what she did. I can understand that, but when you break it down, she failed to follow a regulation/order/instruction/etc. Do we take every Sailor to mast for not following the rules? Depends, doesn't it? The organization also has to be fair and consistent. If Airman Timmy's hair is out of regs, do we send him to mast? Probably not the first thing that comes to mind. We correct Airman Timmy and see where it goes. In a vacuum, we're just guessing at some of these things that would go into the CO's decision.

That's why there's a process for this. Start with DRB and the CPOs. Is she combative or does she realize she's made a big mistake? Are there extenuating or aggravating circumstances? If after all of this, she needs to go to mast, so be it. I'm just concerned that many people are jumping right to the last step in the process. You have people on FB saying she should be dishonorably discharged. Of course, that's ridiculous, but it goes to the fact that they hate what she did without really understanding the mechanics of it.

My belief is that you try to fix things at the lowest possible level, if we sent everyone to NJP for every issue the CO and XO wouldn't get anything done, I have seen many young sailors make mistakes that the CPO mess was able to fix saving everyone time, now if a person screws up after that the sailor probably just doesn't give a shit.

I will say that having been at a command where pretty much everyone that was put on report rec'd NJP because the COC didn't believe in discretion really sucks, you end up not putting people on report because you no they will get hammered even if it is a minor offense.

 

[Brett327]

My belief is that you try to fix things at the lowest possible level, if we sent everyone to NJP for every issue the CO and XO wouldn't get anything done, I have seen many young sailors make mistakes that the CPO mess was able to fix saving everyone time, now if a person screws up after that the sailor probably just doesn't give a shit.

I will say that having been at a command where pretty much everyone that was put on report rec'd NJP because the COC didn't believe in discretion really sucks, you end up not putting people on report because you no they will get hammered even if it is a minor offense.

That's all I'm trying to get across here. I don't understand the resistance to this approach.

 

[zippy]

Personally, I don't give a shit if someone sits or stands in civies during colors on base. The poor choice she made was trying to make a political statement publicly by posting it.

As much as I think a good Chiefs mess could correct this issue, In this current environment, since she brought race into the issue in her post I can see a CMEO complaint over any sort of extra attention she receives from the mess. The official NJP process will likely be the only avenue that the command can use to correct deficiencies in this case without potentially opening itself up for accusations of descrimination.

 

[Randy Daytona]

That's all I'm trying to get across here. I don't understand the resistance to this approach.

How many sailors' mistakes make the Navy Times, much less CNN?

 

[Brett327]

Why does that change the process of adjudicating an offense? Does the fact that it's in the media make it service discrediting? I don't know, frankly, but you still start at step one of the process. This isn't a murder case.

 

[hlg6016]

With any luck some quality time with the goat locker will leave her with a better understanding of what is acceptable conduct while on active duty.

 

[Pichardo]

I have reviewed all of the facts and concluded the proper punishment should be life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.