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Running on the Beach (hard sand and or dirt trail)?

#1
I have had some discomfort on the inside of my right shin. I am guessing a little posterior shin splint or something off balance causing it. If I run 4 miles on pavement then stop it hurts up to 5 days after and then slowly goes away. It is in one location on the tibia and I thought it might be a little stress fracture but if the pain goes away after 5 days then there is really no way to describe it other than a shin splint and myself being paranoid. I am starting to think I need to train on soft ground more often. The only thing is that I worry if running on the beach, is it bad for ankles? I was going to run on this trail and on the beach but want to get anyones input before I go shooting 20 miles down the beach or dirt and not rolling an ankle. So what do you guys think about beach and dirt trail running?
 
#2
I'm not sure how good/bad dirt and sand is for you. But I had the tibia discomfort when I started running with NROTC a couple years ago. No matter how little or far I ran, it always hurt on the inside of the shin bone for days. I went to a doc and he said I had shin splints and gave me calf and hamstring stretches. He told me to ice the shins every night and I was on LLD for a week. I also went to a running specialty store and they looked how I run with cameras and saw that I overpronate. I got special stabilizing running shoes and have had no problem since then, always running on pavement.
 
#3
I'm not sure how good/bad dirt and sand is for you. But I had the tibia discomfort when I started running with NROTC a couple years ago. No matter how little or far I ran, it always hurt on the inside of the shin bone for days. I went to a doc and he said I had shin splints and gave me calf and hamstring stretches. He told me to ice the shins every night and I was on LLD for a week. I also went to a running specialty store and they looked how I run with cameras and saw that I overpronate. I got special stabilizing running shoes and have had no problem since then, always running on pavement.
Ok great thanks I have the same exact thing I will look into that. I have neutral foot but I might be overpronating. I will go and talk to them.
 
#4
I'm not sure how good/bad dirt and sand is for you. But I had the tibia discomfort when I started running with NROTC a couple years ago. No matter how little or far I ran, it always hurt on the inside of the shin bone for days. I went to a doc and he said I had shin splints and gave me calf and hamstring stretches. He told me to ice the shins every night and I was on LLD for a week. I also went to a running specialty store and they looked how I run with cameras and saw that I overpronate. I got special stabilizing running shoes and have had no problem since then, always running on pavement.
I have asics gel nimbus 13s neutral. What kind of shoe did you get? Do you know if you have high arches or what? Maybe I can get another neutral shoe with some extra support.
 

cameron172

Member
pilot
#5
I got some kind of discontinued New Balance stability shoe. A little heavy for my liking but I'm about due for a new pair anyway. I do have high arches, so that's why I overpronate in neutral shoes.
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
#6
I'm not a doctor, but I do run a lot and have, through the years, worked through several injuries (many were just related to overuse). Cameron has hit on some really good points that you should consider.

1. Spend the $ to get the right shoes. Getting your gait analyzed is a good idea (and I don't mean by one of those stupid ass machines at the NEX that you simply stand on...). If you've bought into the whole minimalist fad (and its more than just the vibrams), then do so VERY gradually.

2. Stretching during down time can help a lot with shin issues. Use your toes to scribe various letters in the air (ABCs) - you'll feel the muscles around the shins stretching - this also works when rehabbing turned ankles .

3. Ice is simple and very effective anti-imflamatory. I've known guys to get little paper dixie cups and fill them with water before freezing. When they get back from exercising they can just pull a cup out of the freezer and use it to ice their shins.
 
#7
Orrrr don't spend money on shoes and learn how to run the way the human body has EVOLVED to run. Barefoot or Vibram 5 Finger shoes if you must and learn to run naturally (aka heel doesn't slam into the ground every stride, leaning a little forward on your toes). There are tons of studies to support results in both health and performance.
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
#8
:rolleyes: You could also take the reasonable approach: get your gait analyzed and get fitted for proper fitting shoes while at the same time learning to run with a mid foot strike. This will prevent the injuries that Dread is alluding to.

Minimalist running is a niche (i.e., works for a very few) and has the potential to really screw up your knees, ankles, hips, and achilles if you don't ease into it (as I previously posted) - and then over do it after your transition.

You'll laugh at my moon boots, but they've got me through several 15-20 mile trail races, four half marathons last month and will be worn during the two full marathons coming up in the next 30 days:

trail version - http://www.hokaoneone.com/en/d/mafate-unisex_81.html
road version -http://www.hokaoneone.com/en/d/bondi-b-unisex_88.html

I have both. Ran 18 Saturday in the second pair and another 4 on Sunday in the first pair. Ankles, knees, hips, and achilles felt great. You'll find that they have a very small 4mm of "drop" making them very close to "natural" and promoting midfoot striking while at the same time providing AMPLE cushioning - I win.
 
#10
Those are some bad ass moon shoes for sure. Is there just one style or different versions? I want to look into those more. Did you order yours online? I have the Asics GT2170s now they seem to do the job a thousand times better. Those nimbus 13s were ruining the lower portion of my legs. Thanks guys for the help. No more neutral shoes for me.
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
#11
@JEP - you can simply google "Hoka One One" - that is the brand. Mafate are the trail shoes, Bondi B's are the road shoes. From the company's website you can find a vendor near you. HIGHLY recommend trying a pair on first - a reputable running store worth a darn will let you take 'em out for a run up and down the street. They are NOT cheap - you're going to spend about $175 - but you also get about 600 miles out of them as opposed to the 300ish that you should be putting on a traditional pair of shoes. Once you've tried them I would recommend going to backcountry.com or Zombie Runner's website - you'll probably be able to get 'em cheaper.

I was a bit concerned that with the height that my foot would be off the ground - would I be constantly rolling my ankles on the rocky and rooty single track trails that I run here in the PacNW? This has proven to be a non-issue, for me, including a lot of night running by headlamp on said trails. The sole (base) is very wide and allows for a lot of stability without being a "stability" shoe. The background of the design: you may be familiar with Salomon (they make a wide range of trail shoes and a lot of ski equipment). There were a couple of ultra distance runners who spun off from that company and created Hoka. The idea was that these guys were covering obscene distances on difficult trail conditions. Their thought was that after 50, 60, 80 miles they were more interested in cushion, comfort, and preservation of knees, hips, etc. In my mind, one man's 100 mile ultra is another man's 26.2 - though I'll be wearing them this year when I run my first 50k.

Side note - I've referred to minimalist / barefoot running as a niche that is only really appropriate for a small portion of the population - these "maximilist" shoes could fairly be called a niche as well. I happen to be a part of the population that finds these shoes extremely effective for my needs. //end sales pitch// happy running.
 

C420sailor

Rhino Bro
pilot
#12
u
Right now you need to get that inflammation down. That's your first priority. Rest, ice, compression, elevation.

I fought with that 'injury' for a long time, through years of track and field, road racing, and triathlons. It was always the worst after I took an extended period of time off and tried to come back too quickly---or if I was overtraining.

Good shoes are a must, and you need to be fitted by someone who knows what they're talking about. I'm talking a specialty running shop, not the high school grad at Foot Locker.

Consider orthotics. There is no commercial insert that will provide as much comfortable support as a set of custom orthotics.

Stretching is a no-brainer. Warm up, stretch, cool down, stretch. The post-workout stretch is often neglected.

Post workout massage. Fill up some small dixie cups with water and stick them in your freezer. Grab one after a workout, peel the cup back, and use it to massage the area.

Do not train hard on hard surfaces. If you must run on the street, do your long slow distance on the street. Avoid high intensity work on hard surfaces like asphalt/concrete. Do your tempo/fartlek runs on trails, grass, packed dirt. Do your speed work on a rubber track. If you find yourself sprinting on asphalt, you are asking for an injury. I would avoid running regularly on sand due to the absolute lack of stability it provides.

You may have to notch back your mileage/intensity and build it back up again. Cut your mileage and increase it very slowly. Do not increase weekly mileage by more than 10% per week---and that number is assuming that you're injury free!

Cross train. Don't run every day until you've built a solid base and your body is ready. Cycle, swim, row, etc.

Strengthen your lower body. It's somewhat rare to see someone doing leg exercises in the gym. It's even more rare to see anything beyond the usual squat, lunge, leg press, curl/extension. Google calf/shin exercises.

This all worked for me. Best of luck and train smarter, not harder!
 
#13
Strengthen your lower body. It's somewhat rare to see someone doing leg exercises in the gym. It's even more rare to see anything beyond the usual squat, lunge, leg press, curl/extension. Google calf/shin exercises.
A lot of people don't realize that the muscles associated with injured areas are a major part of the problem. I developed patellar tendinitis last year and the athletic trainer I went to just gave me some stretches and quadricep strengthening exercises. Only once did that muscle get a bit stronger did the tendinitis go away. Same with the shin splints...only once I strengthened my calf and tibialis anterior muscle did the splints go away.
 
#14
Ok guys they seem to have gotten a lot better I did get fitted with the gt2170s at a really good running store. A support shoe and haven’t had any problems running so far. I am doing about 2 miles of slow running on an asphalt track Monday, Wednesday and Friday 0600. Do you think that is too much hard surface running? I do cycling 20 minutes 5 days a week in the gym before my workout. My 3 miles looks good on the asphalt too but don’t want to kill my legs every week and maybe have some type of taper before PFT. My times are looking good even for my slow pace running.
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
#15
That's probably enough for now, while you're still in the "rehab" phase of this injury. If you can work in some running on grass that would be good too. Eliptical glider can be helpful for some cardio maintenance and a stair climber can be used to maintain leg strength while your milage is light.
 
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