what did i miss?
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Raw Meat Category: Is anyone else pissed that we're
- Thread starter Fog
- Start date
Yeah, sorry man. I didn't want to piss off my Helo friends, but I was just trying to connect the dots. Where do we find these O's that seem to love the other side so much?
Seriously? Just because someone disagrees with you on this means they love the other side?
Yeah, seriously. He is disagreeing with me on whether or not these people deserve to be treated as prisoners, or summer camp members. This isn't the first post from MMX that leads me to think he may be in the wrong line of work.
Redux
Well-Known Member
I think the emperor does plenty without congressional approval.
Something tells me that they aren't being treated like "summer camp members."
Riddle me this... if getting the one benefit of having a $750k soccer field in any way, shape or form provides something necessary to help save one American life somewhere... is it worth it?
Do you think that maybe we employ people whose sole job is to determine that? If you were one of those people would you think that you have to justify yourself to all the members of Air Warriors? Or would you just want the tools to do your job?
Because you learn all you need to know about a person from what they say on the internets?
That's the only exposure I get, so that's the viewpoint I'll take.
@vettemuscle: Riddle me this... Do you think that money is better spent on a soccer field, or sufficient body armor for our troops in Afghanistan? I'll argue that it's a gamble to use this money to bribe the detainees. Maybe they turn, but probably they won't. Yes, if that was my job, I would expect to have to justify myself to the American people, or even fellow officers on Air Warriors.
@vettemuscle: Riddle me this... Do you think that money is better spent on a soccer field, or sufficient body armor for our troops in Afghanistan? I'll argue that it's a gamble to use this money to bribe the detainees. Maybe they turn, but probably they won't. Yes, if that was my job, I would expect to have to justify myself to the American people, or even fellow officers on Air Warriors.
Sapper!
Excuse the BS...
Man we would collect data on guys near incidents and let them go (probable cause is needed even though someone just got blown to pieces), then we'd have another incident and the same guy would be around. We would pick them up, treat them great, let their families know what was going on, food, better living conditions that the guys up in the FOBs in some cases; then we'd try to talk with them and the intel people would try to talk and get information. We'd let them go and later on we'd find the guy's prints on a bomb....doesn't work as easily as just treating them nice for countless reasons as I am sure you know.
Honestly, if you'd see how the cells work and deal with the intel streams that we are fed daily before our mission (yes even lowly clearance patrols read and disseminate the stuff) you would only need to run over a few IEDs before you'd stop kidding yourself about what is really going out there. It isn't the slow death of mustard gas, endless artillery of Pelilu, the beaches of Normandy, frozen hills of Korea, or the jungles of vietnam, but trust me these guys are ruthless as you well know....the best way I can put it is when you wrap your head around what is going on out in sector you realize that every single person that is not continually operating out there has not a damn clue about what it will take to win that war. Sadly, it isn't that complicated but large bases, heavy armor, or 20k feet of alititude seperating you from the people of Afghanistan and Iraq means you don't know anything no matter how hard anyone here would like to convince themselves. You just don't and I could think of a ton of ways to illiterate that but your credentials as an officer should speak to your intelligence so I will leave that to you imagination. Robin Olds said it best, we just need to fight to win.
Just to say, we had problems on one stretch of road, really long road but the only place where the IEDs were going in was this one spot that enemy fighters could get to without being seen. Well I kept trying to meet with the police on that road and build some sort of relationship with them. We had a base near by and the base was trying to work with these guys too, they could provide overwatch through the night and even give them immediate artillery and send QRF if the police ever had any issues. Finally, the cheif ANP guy told me to go pound sand, "you'll be gone in a year and I'll still be here losing men. I don't care about you" See the issue isn't with the enemy, the causes run deeper but you'd have to go be in it to understand. To try to understand how someone could turn down massive firepower and assistance for security if beyond me but every situation something similar to this seems to arise that blocks our progress and at the end of the day you are asking GI JOE and the 18 yr old hard charging Marine to do it. Thank god that we have SF, Rangers, and SEALS other wise I'm not sure we'd be killing anyone of importance over there.
Hey you guys, do I have to pull this car over? Quit hitting your sister. Because I will, and we're not going to fucking Disneyland!
Chill on the freaking outrage, okay? Is $750K on this more important than that same money on X? Probably not, but we can play that game all day with almost anything in the federal budget.
Let's be honest. First, a substantial number, if not most, of the detainees at Gitmo are not guilty of anything other than bad thoughts, if that. That said, whether they're bad guys or not, we've (very unwisely) have committed ourselves to an open-ended war on terrorism, whatever the hell that means. So, whether they're guilty or not, we're taking care of these guys indefinitely. So, a certain amount of health, comfort, and recreation is definitely wise. It's very "tough guy" to say, "FUCK THEM. PUT 'EM IN THE HOLE!" or whatever. That's just not reality. Just from a prisoner handling standpoint, people go batshit crazy if they don't get recreation every so often. It's a favor to the guards, if nothing else, to maintain the prisoners' sanity.
WE DID THIS TO OURSELVES. We're in a war with no end-date, so we can't treat them as EPWs and release them at the end of hostilities. At the same time, we don't have the goods on 99% of these guys, so we can't treat them as war criminals, even with the relaxed rules of evidence in military tribunals.
Chill on the freaking outrage, okay? Is $750K on this more important than that same money on X? Probably not, but we can play that game all day with almost anything in the federal budget.
Let's be honest. First, a substantial number, if not most, of the detainees at Gitmo are not guilty of anything other than bad thoughts, if that. That said, whether they're bad guys or not, we've (very unwisely) have committed ourselves to an open-ended war on terrorism, whatever the hell that means. So, whether they're guilty or not, we're taking care of these guys indefinitely. So, a certain amount of health, comfort, and recreation is definitely wise. It's very "tough guy" to say, "FUCK THEM. PUT 'EM IN THE HOLE!" or whatever. That's just not reality. Just from a prisoner handling standpoint, people go batshit crazy if they don't get recreation every so often. It's a favor to the guards, if nothing else, to maintain the prisoners' sanity.
WE DID THIS TO OURSELVES. We're in a war with no end-date, so we can't treat them as EPWs and release them at the end of hostilities. At the same time, we don't have the goods on 99% of these guys, so we can't treat them as war criminals, even with the relaxed rules of evidence in military tribunals.
That, folks, is the strategic corporal you hear about in the classroom and read about in professional journals. That is voice of an NCO who understands the problem in his gut exactly what is going on at least as well as the gray haired, years and years of experience, well read, ten pound brain, career officer understands the problem in his head. If you're on your way to a boots on the ground deployment in the 'stan and you run into somebody who talks like this, give him your full attention and do your best to get him to talk your ear off.
Not sure how you define "strategic corporal" but I have always heard (and used) it in reference to a low-ranking member of the military taking an action that has negative impacts at the strategic level.
The guards at Abu Ghraib, the personnel involved in the Koran burning, or other similair incidents.
I've never heard "strategic corporal" used as a positive, only the result of someone doing something inappropriate that has significant ramifications for the entire country.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
You need to hang around more Marines...
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cts=1330702162938&ved=0CDIQFjAC&url=http://www.quantico.usmc.mil/download.aspx?Path=./Uploads/Files/CDI_strat+cpl+final.pdf&ei=IOdQT_PhCM-msAKat9GdDg&usg=AFQjCNERgpCwqGweovolFzF50rGdqz-VjQ&sig2=SDFwlfPvKJihOD6T6_NdNA
mid1510
1370
My uncle is friends with Col. Michael Bumgarner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bumgarner) who was the commander of the Joint Detention Group (and later relieved of command).
He told him that, without a doubt, 99.99% of prisoners held there were either engaged in fighting or aided the enemy in some way. He thought it was an insult that Americans would think that they would hold innocent people in GTMO.
He told him that, without a doubt, 99.99% of prisoners held there were either engaged in fighting or aided the enemy in some way. He thought it was an insult that Americans would think that they would hold innocent people in GTMO.