Rare designators in USN

[exNavyOffRec]

Thanks a lot, but I have heard that CHENG of a carrier is nuke billet. Surfing www.navysite.de with collection of cruise books I've seen several O-5 CS DHs with that new Info Dominance badge. Honestly, I think this department duties are as far from EDO world as from aviation one, and this may be the only proper place on a carrier for regular non-nuke SWOs. Otherwise, I just don't know which info dominance designator should be the leading one for CVN CS DH - this officer should understand AAW as good as any communication stuff, since all close air defence means of a carrier is of his/her responsibility.

CHENG billets vary, the ones I worked with were either SWO-EDO or SWO-EDO(N)

 

[azguy]

CHENG billets vary, the ones I worked with were either SWO-EDO or SWO-EDO(N)

I'll nitpick this slightly. There's no such thing as "SWO-EDO." I assume the officer you're referring to is an Engineering Duty Officer who is SWO-qualified.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I'll nitpick this slightly. There's no such thing as "SWO-EDO." I assume the officer you're referring to is an Engineering Duty Officer who is SWO-qualified.

Exactly, I wasn't sure if Max would understand the difference.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Exactly, I wasn't sure if Max would understand the difference.

I'm trying at least. Absolutely different practice. When I'm saying "I'm SWO" it just means I have served in surface part of Russian Navy, but I was neither allowed to fill any Engineer/Engineering billet nor screened for command at sea, and not because of my poor performance. I used to be just communication means, cypher/crypto and ECM specialist, though qualified as OOD, and that is why I had no chance to become XO and then CO. Only nav, gunnery/missile and torpedo officers by trade could reach XO/CO billets. On a submarines, my classmates weren't even OODs, due to the practice. They had their own watches in radioroom and nothing more. On our submarines, the officer with top secret clearance cannot be allowed to stand watches other than ones directly linked to his specialty. On a surface ships this is possible. But engineers (again, by trade) both in surface and subsurface parts are restricted even harder: they cannot stand watches outside of engineering spaces. That is why there isn't such officer here who is XO/CO and who had engineering experience in his past. Dunno if is it good or bad, but counting the disasters with our navy ships and subs which occured partly because COs haven't been able to possess the proper SA since they were nav, gunnery or torpedo specialists first and leaders second, I'd rather think it's bad.
I understand what you told me as to this EDO (RL) was SWO-qualified URL officer before.

A friend of mine just finished his tour as a CS DH, he is an O-5 LDO IP, he relief was the same.

Is that polite enough to state that this example is a small piece of general opinion about that "mustangs" corps on a carriers? Generally, who is "true" mustang -CWO or LDO? Sorry if it sounds rough, correct me please if needed

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

though I realize the show gave the impression that he was getting out of the Navy

F**king cable TV. They glued the footages up in such a way that everyone should think this poor Lt had had enough...

 

[Uncle Fester]

F**king cable TV. They glued the footages up in such a way that everyone should think this poor Lt had had enough...

A good friend of mine was on that cruise with CAG-11; she had some interesting bits about how the PBS's interactions with the crew were a bit more controlled than the show lets on. Still, it is a pretty accurate depiction of what Boat life is really like on cruise. I think there's at least one thread on here about it.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Is that polite enough to state that this example is a small piece of general opinion about that "mustangs" corps on a carriers? Generally, who is "true" mustang -CWO or LDO? Sorry if it sounds rough, correct me please if needed

Generically a 'mustang' is just a prior-enlisted officer. However, in the Navy it's usually taken to mean an officer who spent the majority of his/her career enlisted, putting on Chief/Senior Chief/Master Chief before becoming a CWO or LDO. The purpose of LDO/CWO is to give a very experienced specialist a pay grade to match his/her responsibilities, particularly in fields where a junior officer would still need a lot of technical expertise. You mentioned the PBS 'Carrier' series in another thread - the middle-aged female Ensign who supervised the Carrier Air Traffic Control Center (CATCC) would be an LDO Mustang.

 

[azguy]

^ +1

That terms is needlessly contentious in the Navy. A "Mustang" is an LDO or CWO. Both of these communities commission enlisted men and women in order to capitalize on their technical expertise, in the wardroom.

The same can't be said of an enlisted guy that goes to OCS, ROTC, or USNA, and has the ability to commission into any career path. That guy isn't being selected as a technical expert his field.

 

[jmcquate]

PBS's interactions with the crew

Do you mean "Carrier". Had a beer with "Proton", who had a big part in the series, at the Oceana Air Show last year. He's the Deputy STRKFIGHTWINGLANT now. Surprised that he stayed in.

 

[Pags]

^ +1

That terms is needlessly contentious in the Navy. A "Mustang" is an LDO or CWO. Both of these communities commission enlisted men and women in order to capitalize on their technical expertise, in the wardroom.

The same can't be said of an enlisted guy that goes to OCS, ROTC, or USNA, and has the ability to commission into any career path. That guy isn't being selected as a technical expert his field.

But that won't stop the prior-e URL officer from claiming the title of mustang.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

But that won't stop the prior-e URL officer from claiming the title of mustang.

yep, we had a guy that did 4 years enlisted then commission as a nuke SWO, mentioned to one of our CWO4's he was a mustang as well, I think they had a talk afterwards because he never mentioned he was a mustang again, the nuke SWO was a real great officer so I am sure it was actually a decent conversation.

 

[nittany03]

A good friend of mine was on that cruise with CAG-11; she had some interesting bits about how the PBS's interactions with the crew were a bit more controlled than the show lets on. Still, it is a pretty accurate depiction of what Boat life is really like on cruise. I think there's at least one thread on here about it.

One of my skippers was a Black Raven DH for that cruise; I remember him complaining that the film crews were kind of slow to understand the concept of not being able to barge in on sometimes-classified briefs or mission planning. He mentioned having to shoo them out of the ready room at least once.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Thanks gentlemen.

Though we have no such official career path like CWO or LDO in the Navy, we have some officers without degree, who are former WOs (enlisted rank here, a "midshipman" and "senior midshipman", that is why we don't use the word "midshipman" in a naval colleges for a students, who were/are "naval cadets"), but they should possess any degree by their own expense if they want to rise above O-3. But I should tell you that we had some special training installations in Air Force for tech personnell, who were making commissioned officers yet didn't provide any degree for them. The course lasted 3 years against standard naval/af/military colleges of 5 years with degree. Usual career path for them was airplane tech (O-1 to O-2 for at least six years), then a section (two-three airplanes) technician (O-3) for another six to ten years, then out for retirement. The same set of jobs that EAWS-qualified chiefs do for you. And as all NavAir personnell here was trained in Air Force installations, the hangar and deck officers of our VSTOL semi-carriers and a carrier Kuznetsov were in no small part presented by those "3-years boys". To some degree this is the same approach: to keep the JOs with expertize out of the standard officer career path just to make the tech things to run smoothly.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

I was waiting each new piece when it was aired here, in 2008. Then the most concerned questions for me was the ones about the personality of Cdr Fravor, a CO of 41's. There was a notion he has Marine service in his past, first. Having a Marine legacy Hornet squadron deployed along with Aces and absolutely no mutual jokes (if Fravor really was a Marine before) was strange. Then it was very questionable solution not to allow the female pilot to fly the tanker in a fog: it was not clear whether this airplane was of E or F model, and if latter, she could have an experienced WSO in a backseat, so what was the problem? Openly - I mean against the cameras - adding a tension to already intricate question about females in a cockpits - you need courage. Third, his personal landing scores were excellent, given the sight of a blackboard in an Aces' ready room - all green line - but only once or twice he was depicted in an airplane. And last - his retirement at the end of a cruise. Seems to be too hasty to be planned, isn't it?
With all due respect to Cdr David Fravor as officer and gentleman, of course.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

And another officer from that series, then-Lt Lonnie Fields, V-2 DivO. There was very loose translation, but after being tried to listen hard I've got an impression he was, first, NFO, and second, MRPA NFO. So we have seen an officer on damned "disassosiated tour" who have served on a carrier for the first time. This was interesting enough to see how he have coped with new environment.
Third was carrier's RO, a SWO(N) O-5, who confessed that his degree was in sociology or so. My wife who heard this said: "for the God's sake, tell me please how they can trust the nuclear boilers to a man with liberal education?" That is how this works here: you need to have definite diploma and definite formal education to have such a job...