Rafales to cruise on GHWB

[Brett327]

Counterpoint: a non-trivial portion of every ships crew already boozes underway. Still worth it?

So what. We’re talking about policy.

 

[RadicalDude]

So what. We’re talking about policy.

Snark aside, if we’re talking policy, I’m sure one could be fashioned that involved enough of the ship being sober to handle a casualty. Maybe we could divide the sailors into “sections” that stand “Duty” or something...I imagine drinking would be restricted during high risk maneuvers or ops. I have no clue how any other navy handles it, but they’ve managed for a few centuries.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Counter-counterpoint: plenty of navies make it work, including the French and Brits. They don't drink if they're about to go on watch, and nobody imbibes too heavily to act in an emergency. A beer or glass of wine with dinner is hardly incapacitating. And if someone shows up for watch drunk, it's treated the same as if someone shows up wobbly for duty ashore.

 

[Flash]

Counter-counterpoint: plenty of navies make it work, including the French and Brits. They don't drink if they're about to go on watch, and nobody imbibes too heavily to act in an emergency. A beer or glass of wine with dinner is hardly incapacitating. And if someone shows up for watch drunk, it's treated the same as if someone shows up wobbly for duty ashore.

The Brit said that they keep a log of every drink bought, you can only buy your own and not for someone else, and it is then reviewed every month. If someone is drinking too much they are told to dial it back, if not they could lose the privilege. It was the same in the Italian ship I was in, they kept pretty tight control on the liquor and logged what was bought and by whom. Except for wine at lunch and dinner, that was like water to the Italians.

I think the only exception on Her Majesty's ships is if they host a reception or event with guests, then I believe the Queen pays. I'll ask the Brit, he is here all week. If we weren't so damn puritanical it might work for us too, but alas....

 

[Flash]

When the Harrier guys went out on Illustrious for JTFX a few years ago, they followed the Brits’ drinking rules - in essence the same as ours ashore, 12 hours bottle to brief, etc - apparently without incident. ‘Chips and beer’ in the wardroom before dinner was a big hit.

That was a short one-off thing though, I would not be surprised if the rules were different if they deployed as a semi-permanent part of the air wing. Or they might not be, or maybe even squadron CO dependent? I don't know, it'll be interesting to see. One thing I think we can count in is 'that guy' will inevitably fuck it up for his/her fellow Marines sooner or later no matter what they decide.

 

[Brett327]

The Brit said that they keep a log of every drink bought, you can only buy your own and not for someone else, and it is then reviewed every month. If someone is drinking too much they are told to dial it back, if not they could lose the privilege. It was the same in the Italian ship I was in, they kept pretty tight control on the liquor and logged what was bought and by whom. Except for wine at lunch and dinner, that was like water to the Italians.

I think the only exception on Her Majesty's ships is if they host a reception or event with guests, then I believe the Queen pays. I'll ask the Brit, he is here all week. If we weren't so damn puritanical it might work for us too, but alas....

I would imagine that scaling such a system for a ship with 5000+ personnel would be a challenge. Moreover, I would argue that the way we operate, and the tempo at which we do it, is very different from how our allies operate. Which brings me to another point - even if we could do this, should we? What are the benefits vs. risks? Would this really have a measurable impact on morale/retention/etc? My experience tells me it won't.

From an operational standpoint, when a Strike Group is on the line, many squadrons are already aircrew limited between flights, standing alerts, duty, etc. Even as a deployed CO, I rarely knew 12 hours beforehand what I would be doing the next day, and that would often change mid-course. I can't imagine a whole lot of opportunity to imbibe.

 

[Flash]

I would imagine that scaling such a system for a ship with 5000+ personnel would be a challenge. Moreover, I would argue that the way we operate, and the tempo at which we do it, is very different from how our allies operate. Which brings me to another point - even if we could do this, should we? What are the benefits vs. risks? Would this really have a measurable impact on morale/retention/etc? My experience tells me it won't.

From an operational standpoint, when a Strike Group is on the line, many squadrons are already aircrew limited between flights, standing alerts, duty, etc. Even as a deployed CO, I rarely knew 12 hours beforehand what I would be doing the next day, and that would often change mid-course. I can't imagine a whole lot of opportunity to imbibe.

Don't discount the small things when it comes to morale, which is pretty hard to measure in the first place. It is the small things that can often tip the scales for folks deciding to stay or go, imbibing in a pint or two every few days after a long day of work could be just a small check in the the 'plus' column especially when it seems there are a few too many of the small things in the 'minus' column nowadays.

All that said, I think it would be difficult more from a cultural standpoint where we seem to approach liquor on the whole a little differently than our European cousins.

 

[Brett327]

All that said, I think it would be difficult more from a cultural standpoint where we seem to approach liquor on the whole a little differently than our European cousins.

This is another excellent point to emphasize.

 

[RadicalDude]

I would imagine that scaling such a system for a ship with 5000+ personnel would be a challenge. Moreover, I would argue that the way we operate, and the tempo at which we do it, is very different from how our allies operate. Which brings me to another point - even if we could do this, should we? What are the benefits vs. risks? Would this really have a measurable impact on morale/retention/etc? My experience tells me it won't.

From an operational standpoint, when a Strike Group is on the line, many squadrons are already aircrew limited between flights, standing alerts, duty, etc. Even as a deployed CO, I rarely knew 12 hours beforehand what I would be doing the next day, and that would often change mid-course. I can't imagine a whole lot of opportunity to imbibe.

Imagine if we had a system in place to pay for things on ships, and that system was directly linked to your identity, and we gave out cards with microchips that tracker what you purchased or used. Maybe we could even call it “ship money” or “maritime bucks.”

I agree, seems like it would be tough to scale.

 

[Brett327]

Imagine if we had a system in place to pay for things on ships, and that system was directly linked to your identity, and we gave out cards with microchips that tracker what you purchased or used. Maybe we could even call it “ship money” or “maritime bucks.”

I agree, seems like it would be tough to scale.

I'm thinking more about the logistics of supplying that much booze to that many folks. If you've seen what a typical beer day RAS looks like in terms of the number of pallets, I would imagine that keeping that quantity on hand for daily use would take an enormous amount of the ship's storage capacity.

 

[xj220]

People would really love the COD guys then when they come aboard.

 

[RadicalDude]

I'm thinking more about the logistics of supplying that much booze to that many folks. If you've seen what a typical beer day RAS looks like in terms of the number of pallets, I would imagine that keeping that quantity on hand for daily use would take an enormous amount of the ship's storage capacity.

Oh I think we could manage.

 

[Uncle Fester]

I have never once seen a thread about cross-decking that didn’t go to ‘booze on board.’ Just not usually this quickly...

Anyone have any insight why this extended cross-decking is being done? The Brits want our planes because they need the plus-up. Or is this just a larger scale proof of concept?

 

[jmcquate]

I think the de Gaulle has been in the yard and they need to stay current...........hope were sending them a bill.

 

[Brett327]

I think the de Gaulle has been in the yard and they need to stay current...........hope were sending them a bill.

They'll be billed for fuel. Otherwise, what pricetag do you place on the value of interoperability and (insert list of management-speak buzz words)?