Question about Enlisting in Reserve with PoliSci BA

[mibny]

Hey folks,

I have a Bachelors in Political Science from a good school. My GPA was 3.0. I understand that sometimes people in my position (interested in the Reserves) with degrees are steered toward the DCO program. It is also my understanding that this program is highly selective, and that without stellar civilian experience, prior service, super-duper GPA, or a STEM degree, my odds are less-than-desirable. Also, that it might take me 18 months, to get rejected. I just want to serve where I can be of use. I have been thinking of getting in touch with an Enlisted recruiter, but before I do, I'm looking for some guidance. I know PoliSci might mean Public Affairs/Intelligence as an Officer, but for enlisted what rates would someone with my credentials typically pursue? Other info on typical commitment, what I should know or be thinking about before meeting with a recruiter? All is appreciated.

My stats:
24 years old.
BA Political Science, 3.0 GPA
Also, I am likely to pursue a Masters in Public Policy in the next 5 years.
NYC, if that matters.
Anything missing?

Thank you.

 

[egiv]

What are your exact reasons for wanting to be in the Navy? That might determine what course you should pursue. Do you just want to 'serve' in some way shape or form? Looking to get a foot in the door of the intel world or are you open to different types of jobs? Do you want to be in a leadership role, make decisions and be responsible for Sailors? There are a lot of different paths you can take that are very different from one another and there is no cookie-cutter approach to it.

I personally recommend doing quite a bit of research (reading through old threads here is a decent start) and pursuing what you really want (not just what you think you might be able to get). Find as many people as possible that have served in the Navy, both enlisted and officer, and talk to them about their experience; this will help you wrap your head around the large differences in enlisted/officer careers as well as different job fields. Good luck.

 

[jason0231]

mibny,

First of all, thank you for your interest in serving. Most Americans can't be bothered to wear the cloth of their country and many would run like rabbits if called upon to do so. Your desire to serve sets you apart from the herd. Good on you!

I enlisted in the Marine Corps at the age of 23 after getting my BA in Poli Sci. After doing 4 years of active duty -- during which time I was encouraged to go officer more times than I can remember -- I went into the Army Reserve for almost 13 years of enlisted service. Over and over again, I found reasons (or maybe just excuses) to stay enlisted. I finally saw the light and commissioned into USNR in 2013 and never looked back. My story has nothing to do with your life or career plans, but I wanted to lay that out so you know where I am coming from. I went enlisted because it was the only way to guarantee going intel, which was what I really wanted to do. That said, I stayed enlisted a lot longer than I should have in my opinion.

In addition to egiv's excellent points above, here are the questions I think you should ask yourself while doing your research.

1. What do you want to get out of your military experience? Not just professionally but personally as well.
2. What kind of leader do you want to be?
3. What kind of leader do you want to become?

Like most things in life, your degree is what you make of it. One of the best officers I ever worked for had a BS in Kinesiology from a crappy community college, and one of the worst had both an MS and an MA from one of the best engineering schools in the country. Good leaders treat their people like human beings. They understand that you lead people and manage things (not the other way around); no school teaches that, and damned few leaders understand it.

The only hard advice I offer is: if you enlist, don't stay enlisted more than 4 years unless you are passionately dedicated to taking care of your people above all else because that is every E9's primary purpose in life (or should be). If you are primarily interested in managing an organization to get a mission done, however, I would recommend going officer. I am not saying that NCOs don't manage, nor am I saying that officers don't take care of their people. But I think everyone in this forum will agree that the intended emphasis for senior enlisted leaders is taking care of junior enlisted personnel, just as the intended emphasis for officers is to ensure the unit gets the mission done.

I could go on and on but I will stop here. IM/PM me if you have any questions or want to discuss anything at length.

Good Luck and Godspeed,

Jason

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Hey folks,

I have a Bachelors in Political Science from a good school. My GPA was 3.0. I understand that sometimes people in my position (interested in the Reserves) with degrees are steered toward the DCO program. It is also my understanding that this program is highly selective, and that without stellar civilian experience, prior service, super-duper GPA, or a STEM degree, my odds are less-than-desirable. Also, that it might take me 18 months, to get rejected. I just want to serve where I can be of use. I have been thinking of getting in touch with an Enlisted recruiter, but before I do, I'm looking for some guidance. I know PoliSci might mean Public Affairs/Intelligence as an Officer, but for enlisted what rates would someone with my credentials typically pursue? Other info on typical commitment, what I should know or be thinking about before meeting with a recruiter? All is appreciated.

My stats:
24 years old.
BA Political Science, 3.0 GPA
Also, I am likely to pursue a Masters in Public Policy in the next 5 years.
NYC, if that matters.
Anything missing?

Thank you.

DCO is for people that have many years experience in the specific field they are going to go into, why aren't you looking at active duty? If you go enlisted reserve you are still going to be looking at taking many months out of your life for boot camp, school, etc...... when it comes to enlisted reserve you get a list of fields to choose from at MEPS, for many NRD's if you only want a specific job (job locked) you won't be sent down to MEPS to physical and get a job.

 

[jason0231]

Having gone through the DCO process for intel in 2013, I have two anecdotal (but potentially useful) observations to share that echo NavyOffRec's post.

- The ones who made it had prior enlisted intel experience; the more, the better.
- The board was tougher on prior enlisted Navy than they were on prior enlisted for other services. Put another way, I think Navy holds its own to a higher standard. I saw this during my boarding and selection process, and others who came through had similar experiences.

I would advocate going active duty unless getting your MA is your top priority. I think it would be very difficult to get your MA while on active duty as a junior enlisted Sailor. Not impossible, but very difficult. I got my MA in Public Admin online from Penn State while working my civilian job and serving as a SSG with USAR and that was a challenge, to say the least.

 

[Flash]

...I have two anecdotal (but potentially useful) observations to share that echo NavyOffRec's post.

- The ones who made it had prior enlisted intel experience; the more, the better....

Having worked with quite a few Intel DCO's they seem to break down in three basic categories:

- Prior enlisted, especially in Intel but plenty of others too, with a very good record and often with extra experience.
- Civilian experts, often civilian intel officers or someone with extensive study in something Intel is interested a PhD in Middle Eastern studies. Sometimes lawyers or business folks but they generally got in pre-9/11.
- Politically connected, there seems to be a small but steady stream of Congressional staffers or political types who get in.

As for the other DCO's, I have worked a lot less with them but they often seem to fall out in one of those general categories as well. If you don't fit into one of those you might want to start considering other options to serve.

 

[jason0231]

Absolutely. In fact, my board looked exactly like the scenario Flash described. I showed up in my Army Service Uniform with ribbons and medals. The other two candidates showed up in suits; one was a civilian expert employed by a Beltway think tank and the other one was a Congressional aide (he didn't make it). The Navy has held appeal for political types for decades ... just look at JFK (and please don't look at Hunter Biden).

 

[Flash]

...The Navy has held appeal for political types for decades ... just look at JFK (and please don't look at Hunter Biden).

DCO in particular is an especially appealing way for some current political types to serve since it requires minimal initial training and isn't a full time commitment.

 

[mibny]

Thanks for the responses and info, folks, your input is much appreciated. At this time I am
not considering Active Duty because I am likely to begin a Masters in Public Administration/Policy program in Spring 2018. This program would be part-time and take about two years (I also hope to be fluent in Russian by then, for what that's worth.) I am definitely open to applying for OCS or DCO in the future, but for now it seems like enlisted reserve would be the right call for a couple reasons, if my goals are to gain experience and begin serving sooner than later.

In answer to "what do you want to get out of your military experience?" - First, as rehearsed as it may sound, I want to serve the country that I love. Second, I want to gain specific and valuable skills doing interesting work, even better if they translate to my civilian career in the public sector. Third, I want to become a better, more effective leader and team-member.

Thanks for all your help so far!

 

[Hair Warrior]

The latest gouge I heard for IWC DIRCOM is that strong candidates have to either a) be prior enlisted/osvet, or b) do intel in your day job.

On top of that criteria, your degrees and other "whole person" attributes also matter.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Thanks for the responses and info, folks, your input is much appreciated. At this time I am
not considering Active Duty because I am likely to begin a Masters in Public Administration/Policy program in Spring 2018. This program would be part-time and take about two years (I also hope to be fluent in Russian by then, for what that's worth.) I am definitely open to applying for OCS or DCO in the future, but for now it seems like enlisted reserve would be the right call for a couple reasons, if my goals are to gain experience and begin serving sooner than later.

In answer to "what do you want to get out of your military experience?" - First, as rehearsed as it may sound, I want to serve the country that I love. Second, I want to gain specific and valuable skills doing interesting work, even better if they translate to my civilian career in the public sector. Third, I want to become a better, more effective leader and team-member.

Thanks for all your help so far!

Why not get your masters on the Navy's dime (GI Bill, NPS, etc) and consider the active duty side?

Be aware with that 3.0 GPA you're only eligible for Pilot/NFO as well as SWO. Age cut off for both are 27 and 29 respectively...

 

[egiv]

In answer to "what do you want to get out of your military experience?" - First, as rehearsed as it may sound, I want to serve the country that I love. Second, I want to gain specific and valuable skills doing interesting work, even better if they translate to my civilian career in the public sector. Third, I want to become a better, more effective leader and team-member.

Awesome. I would typically tend to advise someone in your position to be patient and go the active officer route - better pay, better quality of life, more responsibility/influence, and, like RUFIO said, the option to get your MA for free is always there.

That said, you may be able to accomplish some/all of your goals by enlisting. I would recommend researching Cryptologic Technician NOSs (jobs), especially CTI (linguist), given your interest in language and politics. The Navy would pay for you to spend 2 years in Monterrey, California learning a language, but no guarantee it's Russian. I'd also look into Intelligence Specialist, which is more of an all-source intelligence analyst, vice CTs which specialize in SIGINT.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Intelligence Specialist, which is more of an all-source intelligence analyst, vice CTs which specialize in SIGINT.

IS's can specialize in IMINT, CI/HUMINT, strike targeting, or expeditionary intel - they aren't solely all-source analysts.

CT's do the SIGINT... but not exclusively SIGINT. CT work can touch on ACINT, OSINT, ELINT, FISINT, and MASINT, too.

Ref:
http://www.cool.navy.mil/usn/LaDR/is_e1_e9.pdf
http://www.cool.navy.mil/usn/LaDR/ctn_e1_e9.pdf
http://www.cool.navy.mil/usn/LaDR/ctr_e1_e9.pdf
http://www.cool.navy.mil/usn/LaDR/cti_e1_e9.pdf
http://www.cool.navy.mil/usn/LaDR/ctm_e1_e9.pdf
http://www.cool.navy.mil/usn/LaDR/ctt_e1_e9.pdf

If you commission as an officer, you would oversee the work of other sailors in these fields - but you would not specialize in one of those fields exclusively. Navy intel officers are seen as generalists. Also, they're officers first, and intel professionals second.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Awesome. I would typically tend to advise someone in your position to be patient and go the active officer route - better pay, better quality of life, more responsibility/influence, and, like RUFIO said, the option to get your MA for free is always there.

That said, you may be able to accomplish some/all of your goals by enlisting. I would recommend researching Cryptologic Technician NOSs (jobs), especially CTI (linguist), given your interest in language and politics. The Navy would pay for you to spend 2 years in Monterrey, California learning a language, but no guarantee it's Russian. I'd also look into Intelligence Specialist, which is more of an all-source intelligence analyst, vice CTs which specialize in SIGINT.

IS's can specialize in IMINT, CI/HUMINT, strike targeting, or expeditionary intel - they aren't solely all-source analysts.

CT's do the SIGINT... but not exclusively SIGINT. CT work can touch on ACINT, OSINT, ELINT, FISINT, and MASINT, too.

Ref:
http://www.cool.navy.mil/usn/LaDR/is_e1_e9.pdf
http://www.cool.navy.mil/usn/LaDR/ctn_e1_e9.pdf
http://www.cool.navy.mil/usn/LaDR/ctr_e1_e9.pdf
http://www.cool.navy.mil/usn/LaDR/cti_e1_e9.pdf
http://www.cool.navy.mil/usn/LaDR/ctm_e1_e9.pdf
http://www.cool.navy.mil/usn/LaDR/ctt_e1_e9.pdf

If you commission as an officer, you would oversee the work of other sailors in these fields - but you would not specialize in one of those fields exclusively. Navy intel officers are seen as generalists. Also, they're officers first, and intel professionals second.

The above is all great IF he qualifies for CT/IS and IF there is even a CT/IS job available, and IF they will let him go to MEPS if he only wants CT/IS.

 

[Hair Warrior]

- Politically connected, there seems to be a small but steady stream of Congressional staffers or political types who get in.

the other one was a Congressional aide (he didn't make it). The Navy has held appeal for political types for decades ... just look at JFK (and please don't look at Hunter Biden).

DCO in particular is an especially appealing way for some current political types to serve since it requires minimal initial training and isn't a full time commitment.

This is why I am generally not a fan of politicals seeking Navy intel DIRCOM: https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html

"...according to the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters." ????????
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