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Professional Reading Drop Box

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pilot
Does anyone have a recommendation for a WW1/Great War book concerning the overall history? The cause(s), the war, the aftermath.
Listen to the podcast @Gonzo08 recommended; it's a good use of your commute/wuba chariot/free time. Noted british historian John Keegan did a good one book overview called "The First World War*." "Guns of August" is also a good read about the start of the war. If you really want to get into the familial/geo-political lead up to the war, I've been reading "Dreadnought" and it details the rise in tensions between Britain and Germany and the alliances that resulted in WWI.

*Oddly enough, Dan Carlin of Hardcore History is not a John Keegan fan.
 

danpass

Well-Known Member
Ok, thanks, podcast sounds good, downloading now.

Checking that book out now.

edit: book seems to be just right, an intro, in-depth, of the war (based both on the description and several of the reviews). And $10, delivered Amazon Prime, for a new hardcover can't be beat lol!
 
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Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
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Super Moderator
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Does anyone have a recommendation for a WW1/Great War book concerning the overall history? The cause(s), the war, the aftermath.

The Guns of August still can't be beat for the causes and opening of the war.

Check out Hundred Days: The Campaign that Ended WW1. The events leading up to the Second Marne, including the arrival of Pershing and the American Expeditionary Force, and the aftermath to the end of the war. I vaguely knew but didn't really appreciate until I read it how close to collapse all sides were in 1917-18, and that the Germans very well could've broken through and won the war. The AEF made the difference.

For a general history, The Great War: A Combat History of the First World War, or The First World War by John Keegan.

I just started reading Marked for Death: The First War in the Air, which is the first book focused on WW1 aviation that I've read. Good so far, if very Anglo-centric.
 

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pilot
Be advised danpass, reading about the Great War may make you angry and confused. Never in the history of the world has that much stupidity and incompetence resulted in that much carnage.
Very true. If you want to lose faith in mankind there's no better way than studying WWI. Not only was the war horrific but they screwed away the peace process so bad it directly led to another even more horrific world war.
 

danpass

Well-Known Member
I was somewhat familiar with ww1 and certainly blame the Versailles treaty for ww2.

Ww1 was about 100 years after Napoleon and we're now about 100 years after ww1, which was an intersection of old psychology with modern weapons.

I feel we may be in a similar place today, the intersection of yesterday's tactics and mentalities but using today and tomorrow's technologies (especially cyber).

I'd like to think hindsight will benefit foresight this time.
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
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I was somewhat familiar with ww1 and certainly blame the Versailles treaty for ww2.

Ww1 was about 100 years after Napoleon and we're now about 100 years after ww1, which was an intersection of old psychology with modern weapons.

I feel we may be in a similar place today, the intersection of yesterday's tactics and mentalities but using today and tomorrow's technologies (especially cyber).

I'd like to think hindsight will benefit foresight this time.
We're always in that place; it's called "human nature." You can't study for a war. You can study them in general, but that doesn't give you instant gouge that always works. Every one is different. Plus, the other guy is usually not entirely stupid, and by definition wants to win badly enough that he's willing to kill you. Hence the old saw about "a series of catastrophes leading to victory."
 

ryan1234

Well-Known Member
I was somewhat familiar with ww1 and certainly blame the Versailles treaty for ww2.

Ww1 was about 100 years after Napoleon and we're now about 100 years after ww1, which was an intersection of old psychology with modern weapons.

I feel we may be in a similar place today, the intersection of yesterday's tactics and mentalities but using today and tomorrow's technologies (especially cyber).

I'd like to think hindsight will benefit foresight this time.

I think you'll find resounding themes in nearly every conflict, most notable are those that deal with bureaucratic archtecture and dynamics. The inertia is real.

Hindsight is certainly a tricky thing. There seems to be a trend among academics of turning history into something linear, which then seems to invite a particular illusion of predictability, "if only we study history more, we won't repeat the same mistakes." In this way, hindsight tends to produce the appearance of a complete understanding of facts and complexities. The reality is that things such as society, warfare, economics, etc. are interactively complex systems which are non-linear - actions of the parts produce inconsistent effects on the whole. Effect valuation is fairly difficult. Only after the fact, are those values able to be "determined." One of John Boyd's last presentations was something he called "Conceptual Spiral." It essentially summarized the path to notable technological development. It translates fairly well to tactical evolution. Two good reads if you have the time are: "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" by Thomas Kuhn and "The Limits of Airpower: The American Bombing of North Vietnam" by Mark Clodfelter.

It leads to a consideration of the military's space between rhetoric and action when it comes to innovation.
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I think you'll find resounding themes in nearly every conflict, most notable are those that deal with bureaucratic archtecture and dynamics. The inertia is real.

Hindsight is certainly a tricky thing. There seems to be a trend among academics of turning history into something linear, which then seems to invite a particular illusion of predictability, "if only we study history more, we won't repeat the same mistakes." In this way, hindsight tends to produce the appearance of a complete understanding of facts and complexities. The reality is that things such as society, warfare, economics, etc. are interactively complex systems which are non-linear - actions of the parts produce inconsistent effects on the whole. Effect valuation is fairly difficult. Only after the fact, are those values able to be "determined." One of John Boyd's last presentations was something he called "Conceptual Spiral." It essentially summarized the path to notable technological development. It translates fairly well to tactical evolution. Two good reads if you have the time are: "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" by Thomas Kuhn and "The Limits of Airpower: The American Bombing of North Vietnam" by Mark Clodfelter.

It leads to a consideration of the military's space between rhetoric and action when it comes to innovation.
People are also willing to cherry-pick those points in history and current events which confirm their existing biases, rather than actually look at what's going on and try to cut through the BS. It's why it's a good idea, at least on the political realm, to also cruise around the sites where the commentariat tends to call people with your own values or affiliations complete assholes. Every once in a while, you'll go "shit, that guy's got a point." Because no faction is right 100 percent of the time.
 
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