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Pistol and Rifle Qual

#1
Ladies and gentlemen,

How often do pilots requal on the range? Either pistol or rifle? From what I understand, you are exempt for a few years while you are at flight school.

How does it work in the fleet? I’ve asked an officer PMI and was told “they qual every fuckin year like everyone else.” But some told me aviators rarely go to the range. Any gouge from pilots?
 

Swanee

Self aware since 2014
pilot
Contributor
#2
You'll go to the pistol range every year or so. As far as the rifle range? There are plenty of us who haven't shot a rifle for score since TBS.
 

Renegade One

Well-Known Member
None
#3
What Swanee said above is, I guess, the current construct, which is "leaps and bounds" better than in my day, wherein the only shooting you ever HAD to do was the pistol and survival rifle "fam fire" during AOCS (I remember doing it during poopie week)...a total of 5 .38 special rounds from a snub-nose pistol, and one each .410 shotgun and .22 Hornet from the folding USAF "survival rifle", which we never carried anyway. Once I got to the fleet, I had to hunt and scratch around to find out who to talk to and where to go to fire for score/ribbon qual. I don't think very much changed until maybe Desert Storm or even 9-11. Another "little known opportunity" (e.g., you gotta know a guy...) is competitive shooting opportunities for both service rifle and pistol. You can earn "leg medals" and go all the way to "Distinguished" status for rifle and pistol if you break the code. The annual PAC and LANT "Fleet Matches" and the "All Navy" matches are great...and could get you an invite to the Nationals at Camp Perry. In my day, it was a fucking Priory of Scion type thing run by "insiders who knew the password" and largely by Reservists who spent their entire drill lives shooting somewhere. Our squadrons always had shit for issue weapons (remember the S&W Military and Police .38 Specials...every Dauntless pilot you see in WWII is carrying one in a shoulder holster) and about 1000 rounds TOTAL of pistol NCEA (no rifle ammo at all), but...TA-DA...NAS Miramar had a super-secret armory building full of match grade M1As and 1911s and pallets of match grade ammo for both. But you had to know a guy... :)

If a base near you has any sort of MWR skeet or trap range, sniff around there to find shooters. I dunno...maybe it's all easier and more organized now.
 
#5
Thank you for your help!

Is the reason for not going due to the MC? Or is it personal and you waive out?

Either way that’s perfect because I get a chance to get double expert if i fix my pistol!
 

Swanee

Self aware since 2014
pilot
Contributor
#6
Thank you for your help!

Is the reason for not going due to the MC? Or is it personal and you waive out?
Generally you have to have a week in which you can get away from your ground job and Ops doesn't need you on the flight schedule. When that happens do you want to take leave or do you want to go to the rifle range? The TO weapon of an aviator is the pistol, so it's not a requirement to go.

Also- what few rifle range slots you can scrounge up need to go to your enlisted Marines so they can improve their cutting scores and be competitive for promotion.

Either way that’s perfect because I get a chance to get double expert if i fix my pistol!
No one cares what you shoot on the range, as long as you pass and don't fuck up and get kicked off. It's nothing more than uniform flair. They will care if you're not around to fly/not ready for a flight ot that your ground job hasn't been done/you're not ready for the meeting because you're off at the pistol range chasing an expert badge.
 

hlg6016

A/C Wings Here
#7
I pistol qualed with that S&W .38. The aim point was at 8 o'clock on the target to hit black.
and my big mitts cramped up on the dinky wooden grips.
 

MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
#9
On the Navy side, in the fleet, it is even more of a shit show. Pretty sure when we did pre-deployment pistol quals during my JO tour, my bud had bullets that made contact with the adjacent stall's target. He was off scale low for marksmanship, but what are they gonna do, not send you on deployment? When he and I flew our first combat mission in OEF, I remember getting suited up in the PR shop, telling him that if we both go down, he ditch his sidearm so as to not shoot me. Luckily that didn't happen. I'm not sure if my accuracy was much better.......2 city boys that can shoot an M61 and make skin contact, but slang 9mm anywhere and everywhere.........at least the USMC has some standards :)
 

nittany03

FUBIJAR
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
#12
TO&E. Table of Ordnance and Equipment. It's a term mostly used by the Army and Marines. A notional military unit, such as an infantry battalion, is made up of X numbers of people, just like the org chart of a civilian company. But the TO&E also details the gear that gets issued and who it gets issued to. Including weapons. If this is your job, you get an M249 light machine gun. If this is your job, you get an M4 carbine and an M9 pistol. And so on. TACAIR Naval Aviators flying in combat are generally issued an M11 pistol and 2 13-round mags of 9x19mm ammo.