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PERS-911 won't release from IRR to USAFR

#1
Long story short: commissioned in 2012 as an SNA, failed NATOPS checkride, wasn't selected for NFO training due to manpower, not redesignated at POCR board due to manpower, and involuntarily separated honorably due to reduction in force in 2015. I'm a useless 1305 O-3 in the IRR now with about 6 years TFCS. Recently started applying to ANG and USAFR units for navigator spots, got picked up by one. My USAFR recruiter sent my DD-368 to PERS-911, but they disapproved it, citing infamous NAVADMIN 288/17 ("Early Separation Policy NAVADMIN Cancellations"): "Per [288/17], this disapproval is due to the fact that you have not fulfilled your MSO."

My research leads me to believe that 288/17 only cancels 103/14 (Enlisted Early Transition Program) and 182/16 (Time-In-Grade and Next-Lower-Grade Waviers), neither of which are applicable to me. It does have some humbo-jumbo about all early out programs being cancelled and MSO’s being expected to be fulfilled, however; per DOD Instruction 1300.4:
Release of a commissioned officer, warrant officer, or enlisted member for a transfer in accordance with this issuance will not constitute a release from fulfillment of the military service obligation established by Sections 651, 10145, 10146, 12104, or 12208 of Title 10, U.S.C.; an active duty obligation in accordance with DoD Instruction (DoDI) 6000.13; any other active duty obligation; or any agreement, law, regulation, or policy of the losing uniformed service. Additional military service performed after such transfer will be counted toward fulfillment of a previous obligation
and per DOD Instruction 1304.25:
Transfer of Service members who have a remaining MSO between Military Services or components of a Military Service is accomplished in accordance with DoDIs 1205.05 and 1300.04 (References (k) and (l)). Obligated military service performed before and after an authorized transfer counts toward fulfillment of the MSO
so I would most definitely fulfill… and extend my MSO.

Am I understanding these correctly? Has anybody had any experience with this or can provide some guidance? Can this be appealed/waived/pleaded at the PERS level, or do I have to go to the elevation authority, the Undersecretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness? Thanks in advance for your help.
 

wink

VS NFO. Blue and Gold Officer
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
#3
Stupid question I suppose, but I have been out of recruiting for years and things may have changed. How in hell do you have 6 more years obligated service if you commissioned in 2012 and never winged.

Good on ya for staying in the fight. What sort of outfit made you the offer?
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
#4
Stupid question I suppose, but I have been out of recruiting for years and things may have changed. How in hell do you have 6 more years obligated service if you commissioned in 2012 and never winged.
IRR commitment is used to be 8 years post commissioning depending on source (unsure about OCS).
 

wink

VS NFO. Blue and Gold Officer
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
#5
IRR commitment is used to be 8 years post commissioning depending on source (unsure about OCS).
That I know, which was why I was confused. I now see I misread his post. Thought he had 6 years left. The math didn't work out for 8 year obligation. My bad. Go back to your regularly scheduled AW experience.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
#6
IRR commitment is used to be 8 years post commissioning depending on source (unsure about OCS).
I'm pretty sure that most folks who join the military, enlisted and officer, sign up for 8 years total with few is any exceptions.
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
#7
I helped a friend do an Interservice Transfer to go from a Navy SELRES O3/1835 to the Air Force Reserve JAG.

Reference MILPERSMAN 1300-081, INTERSERVICE TRANSFER OF AN OFFICER OUT OF THE NAVY

You seem to have an OBLISERV for Flight Training...
 

Attachments

#8
Thanks all for your replies. Calling PERS is next on the list, asking around here to prep, gain insight, and see if anyone had similar experiences was first. I'm trying to go to UNT for a B-1 squadron.

Indeed the MSO is 8 years after commissioning, so my MSO is fulfilled in 2020, and indeed I'd have incurred an 8-year OBLISERV on my winging date, had I actually winged. So here I sit, a unrated 1305 with no warfare qual in the IRR.

Looking at 1300-081, would they likely be denying me on the basis of 3.a? If so, can't DOD (and Navy) instructions that say that service after the transfer counts towards my MSO fulfill that?
 

wink

VS NFO. Blue and Gold Officer
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
#9
No logical reason to hold an undesignated O-3 that wants to better his career. You aren't any real benefit to the Navy. Just have to find the right people.
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
#10
Thanks all for your replies. Calling PERS is next on the list, asking around here to prep, gain insight, and see if anyone had similar experiences was first. I'm trying to go to UNT for a B-1 squadron.

Indeed the MSO is 8 years after commissioning, so my MSO is fulfilled in 2020, and indeed I'd have incurred an 8-year OBLISERV on my winging date, had I actually winged. So here I sit, a unrated 1305 with no warfare qual in the IRR.

Looking at 1300-081, would they likely be denying me on the basis of 3.a? If so, can't DOD (and Navy) instructions that say that service after the transfer counts towards my MSO fulfill that?
I would recommend you follow the Interservice Transfer request process and see what happens.
 
#11
So this is tricky and a lot of people have problems with this. What you need is someone to give you a conditional release to the ANG/USAF/whatever branch you're going to, which is hard for you since you're a 1305 and you don't have a program manager per se. If I were you I would drop an email to the Reserve OCM and get his/her opinion on the matter on who you need to release you. Once the conditional release is signed by whoever is authorized to release you (usually it is a warfare manager), and the gaining service accepts you then it is sent to pers for your discharge paperwork. It a tough road to navigate an I've seen unqualified aviation officer and so's trudge through it trying to figure it out.

In my case it wasn't too bad, I commissioned directly into "Drilling IRR" and 90% of my community was IRR, and we all owed the 3 years on Active Duty, or 8 years. Luckily the contract I signed as a midshipman didn't specify which branch I had to serve those 3 years of AD to satisfy my contract. However, we had a specific community/program manager just for 1665's (Strategic Sealift). I had to have my program manager "conditionally release me" from strategic sealift prior to applying for Marine OCS. Once I signed the enlistment papers for the Marines, we dated the conditional release and sent it back to my community for routing and it ultimately goes to PERS after that. 2-3 weeks later I had my discharge papers in my mailbox.
 
#12
The thing is... I DID submit a conditional release (DD-368) through my USAFR recruiter to PERS-911 (the approval authority in my case) IAW MILPERSMAN 1300-081 section 4.c and it was disapproved, citing the 8-year MSO and 288/17, so I'm looking for some help to gear up and fight this.
 
#13
I can't remember but is there an IRR Community manager? Honestly if I were you I would keep sending them with different signatures until they approved one... Keeping someone in the IRR when they have the desire and potential to serve in a greater capacity somewhere else is fucking stupid. I know another guy that is having this problem too, not sure he figured it out or not.
 
#14
Thanks, @Duc'-guy25. Any chance you could ask him?

There isn't really an IRR community manager AFAIK, it just went to the PERS-911 Branch Head. The next step per a DOD directive would be to go to the Under Secretary for Personnel and Readiness who can probably see the bigger picture better, I'm just trying to see if I can take care of it at the PERS level before I elevate.
 
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