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NEWS Nice article on surplus mil helos making way to commercial operators

rotorhead1871

UH-1N.....NAS Agana, Guam....circa 1975
pilot
I doubt seriously if any commercial operator will spend the maint time or $$ to take care of the airframe correctly, this could be a bummer for all concerned.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I doubt seriously if any commercial operator will spend the maint time or $$ to take care of the airframe correctly, this could be a bummer for all concerned.
How is it different then maintaining any other large complex aircraft via an established approved maintenance program? Commercial operators like Airlines spend big bucks. Erikson has done well with the Sky Crane.
 

zab1001

Well-Known Member
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Why would a commercial entity buy an airframe and not maintain it?
 

rotorhead1871

UH-1N.....NAS Agana, Guam....circa 1975
pilot
How is it different then maintaining any other large complex aircraft via an established approved maintenance program? Commercial operators like Airlines spend big bucks. Erikson has done well with the Sky Crane.
airlines and even erikson have good cash flow, the airlines cant defer maint. as they fly people, but commercial operators MUST make money and have a good cash flow, or they can and do defer maintenance, which they do more than they should do , in my opinion. deferring maintenance is NOT a good thing for a helicopter.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Maintenance issues can lead to mishaps in any aviation enterprise. Could be poor procedure, bad parts or unreasonable deferrals. All are monitored by the FAA. There is no evidence it is more likely to happen in a large commercial operation then a smaller one.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
So I've actually looked into this -

The surplus UH-60A and CH-47D Chinook make up a good deal of the aircraft being released from military service and sold to commercial operators. So far these have been very successful programs with operators moving fairly quick from long term storage to operating on revenue generating ops.

The FAA issues Restricted Category airworthiness certificates. The operations manuals are approved as is training and maintenance programs.

I can tell you that the commercial maintenance programs are far less operationally invasive and tend to be more "on condition". It is widely understood that the military operational phased based maintenance programs on these aircraft are actually hard on the aircraft - and moving to "on condition" programs for commercial ops, as advised by Boeing and Sikorsky in this case have been quite successful. Amazing - not contantly pulling panels and inspecting or replacing everything based on military requirements results in less availability - even though military programs are geared to "go to war readiness".

So "fly it until inspection or indications say you should not" seems to be successful with commercial operators flying UH-60A's and CH-47D's - no wonder they are selling by the dozens.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
So I've actually looked into this -

The surplus UH-60A and CH-47D Chinook make up a good deal of the aircraft being released from military service and sold to commercial operators. So far these have been very successful programs with operators moving fairly quick from long term storage to operating on revenue generating ops.

The FAA issues Restricted Category airworthiness certificates. The operations manuals are approved as is training and maintenance programs.

I can tell you that the commercial maintenance programs are far less operationally invasive and tend to be more "on condition". It is widely understood that the military operational phased based maintenance programs on these aircraft are actually hard on the aircraft - and moving to "on condition" programs for commercial ops, as advised by Boeing and Sikorsky in this case have been quite successful. Amazing - not contantly pulling panels and inspecting or replacing everything based on military requirements results in less availability - even though military programs are geared to "go to war readiness".

So "fly it until inspection or indications say you should not" seems to be successful with commercial operators flying UH-60A's and CH-47D's - no wonder they are selling by the dozens.
Interesting. The Army Aviation Heritage Foundation maintains it's UH-1s and AH-1s per Army Phase Maintenance program. We are coming out of a 150 hrs phase on our chapter Cobra and I was shocked how deep we had to go into some systems that worked just fine. Was also surprised they do a pre phase test flight. I don't recall a pre maintenance check flight in Navy fixed wing.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Interesting. The Army Aviation Heritage Foundation maintains it's UH-1s and AH-1s per Army Phase Maintenance program. We are coming out of a 150 hrs phase on our chapter Cobra and I was shocked how deep we had to go into some systems that worked just fine. Was also surprised they do a pre phase test flight. I don't recall a pre maintenance check flight in Navy fixed wing.

We didn't do them in Prowlers, though I guess a flight to the depot that was 'Let's see what this bird can do!' flight was sort of a test flight. G-limits?! Who needs those? :D
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Timberline Helicopters in Idaho - acquired yet another UH-60A from GSA auction. A little clean up, and N-number and is immediately put to use generating revenue in construction (ski resort construction) and firefighting.

There is money to be made here gentlemen!

BTW, FAA issuing S-70 type ratings based on H-60 military experience alone.

14681586_1316497255047491_6132095152179821318_n.jpg
 

ChuckM

Well-Known Member
pilot
Flight Safety in West Palm, FL has a level D S-70 sim that they are standing up. I'm trying to figure out what it would take to facilitate initial helicopter ATP check rides. That would beat the shit out of training in a Robinson for 10 hours. Pretty sure they are already doing recurrent training for these guys. http://www.firehawkhelicopters.com
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Or you could just have done it in a Romeo... Too soon?

(It's been done already, FYI)

Seriously, though, that's actually cool info. In the past, there's been an option for a checkride in a 206 in your previous AOR, @ChuckM, but not sure if that's still an option (just haven't looked).
 
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