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New helo trainer at Rucker?

Pags

Well-Known Member
pilot
Can Block I's do night over water personnel recovery/hoist - is there some sort of coupled doppler radar ? (or some other technology to hover in place over water in zero visibility)
Yes. All 60s have a hoist and a hover coupler. A BLK I is completely fine for a SARDET or a USNS DET, but all those birds can do is SAR or LOG.
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
Yes. All 60s have a hoist and a hover coupler. A BLK I is completely fine for a SARDET or a USNS DET, but all those birds can do is SAR or LOG.
Clearly I have been out of the Navy for awhile, but this seems very confusing. I get the transition from HSL to HSM...pretty much the same missions just upgraded capabilities. But now there is HSM expeditionary (traditional HSL deployments) and HSM on CV. So what is HSC? It's not HS and HC, because they do no ASW. They claim to have an overland capability, but apparently training and equipment fielding make that a tenuous claim. ASUW? But they lack the sensors to acquire targets. VERTREP and logistics? OK...but why not just HC? HSC is deploying on USNS ships too, correct?

What exactly is HSC?
 

Pags

Well-Known Member
pilot
Clearly I have been out of the Navy for awhile, but this seems very confusing. I get the transition from HSL to HSM...pretty much the same missions just upgraded capabilities. But now there is HSM expeditionary (traditional HSL deployments) and HSM on CV. So what is HSC? It's not HS and HC, because they do no ASW. They claim to have an overland capability, but apparently training and equipment fielding make that a tenuous claim. ASUW? But they lack the sensors to acquire targets. VERTREP and logistics? OK...but why not just HC? HSC is deploying on USNS ships too, correct?

What exactly is HSC?
HSM=HSL+ASW bits of HS
HSC=HC+SUW&CSAR bits of HS

HSC has multiple Block configurations of aircraft. The first 60Ss went to the old HC squadrons to replace 46s in the LHD SARDET and USNS missions. To do these missions they needed a help that didn't roll motors every day but they didn't need all the Gucci warfighting gear because the details were only expected to be in the Stbd D Or flying LOG flights. Block 2 aircraft were supposed to do AMCM but the aircraft got to the fleet before AMCM did. There are actually Block 3A and 3B aircraft. I don't remember what the point of a 3A was but the 3B is the Helo you'd want to fly if people might be shooting at you or if you want to shoot at people. At first the 3Bs went to the carrier squadrons but eventually the 3Bs replaced most (all?) of the deployers because operational commanders wanted capability and community leadership wanted to provide that capability.

Not surprised to hear that they burned up all the hours on the 3Bs doing Stbd D and LOG. I get the overarching desire by operational leadership and community leadership to have one config that can do it all such as a 3B 60S or a Rhino but the flip side to that desire is that you end up burning up expensive airframes doing things like LOG, Stbd D, and tanking.
 

DanMa1156

Land of the Milk and Honey.
pilot
Contributor
I finally found that community missive I had mentioned earlier that contained the tidbit about wanting the new HT trainer to replace the SAR DET birds.

"With the right acquisition approach, we could also use the AHTS (Advanced Helicopter Training System) aircraft to fulfill Station SAR requirements, which would simplify contractor-support requirements and return MH-60S aircraft to the Fleet."
 

Attachments

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
I finally found that community missive I had mentioned earlier that contained the tidbit about wanting the new HT trainer to replace the SAR DET birds.
That's actually a decent idea, at least at first glance.

If the new HT trainer has the performance and payload for a high DA HOGE to hoist and fly away with, let's say at least two survivors, then that's not a bad idea. What does a -60 cost per flight hour nowadays? I bet the winner for the new HT trainer, whichever one they pick, comes in around $2k/hr or a lot less than a slick 60S. All of the contenders are more substantial helicopters than the "mighty" 57, which can barely takeoff with two pilots, one pax, and full fuel.

If each fleet squadron got a midlife former SAR det bird/homeguard truck, that would make a good flight schedule workhorse for basic day/night/NVG/SAR currency. That would save the better configured aircraft for tactics currency and deployments.

I don't much care one way or the other, but I'm glad to see the community weenies discussing these things.
 

ChuckMK23

Former H-46 Driver
pilot
I would think H135 cabin would be best for any SAR of the 3 candidate aircraft. Also the H135 is a single pilot aircraft - I would hope the Navy station SAR scenario would keep it that way.
 

croakerfish

Well-Known Member
pilot
I finally found that community missive I had mentioned earlier that contained the tidbit about wanting the new HT trainer to replace the SAR DET birds.

"With the right acquisition approach, we could also use the AHTS (Advanced Helicopter Training System) aircraft to fulfill Station SAR requirements, which would simplify contractor-support requirements and return MH-60S aircraft to the Fleet."
Is there some kind of distro for these?
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I would think H135 cabin would be best for any SAR of the 3 candidate aircraft. Also the H135 is a single pilot aircraft - I would hope the Navy station SAR scenario would keep it that way.
I know a guy who flies a 119, but I haven't been able to climb around in it to compare. The 135 is okay cabin-space wise, although you'd have to twist the litter to get it in, a la a 407. But the 135 runs out of ass pretty quick when you start increasing DA. That's all I was saying.
 

IKE

Nerd Whirler
pilot
I know a guy who flies a 119, but I haven't been able to climb around in it to compare. The 135 is okay cabin-space wise, although you'd have to twist the litter to get it in, a la a 407. But the 135 runs out of ass pretty quick when you start increasing DA. That's all I was saying.
The 145 has French doors on the back of the fuselage. The 135 doesn't?
 
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