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Navy Weather Woes

C420sailor

Former Rhino Bro
pilot
I once read WX/NOTAMS off my iPhone in a brief. I thought the IPs head was going to explode. An iPad in an orange and white? I don't think that'd go over too well :)

The thing you need to remember about the T-45 is that it's f'n tiny. The pub bag is all you need---don't even think about bringing a helmet bag to the jet. Bring as little stuff as possible. Two kneeboards are completely unnecessary. As mentioned earlier, the only time I've ever wished I had another kneeboard was during CAS. A plate strap will do just fine.

And definitely have the PRs go over your helmet. As mentioned earlier, the new liner, soft earcups, and CEPs are a godsend.
 

KBayDog

Well-Known Member
I once read WX/NOTAMS off my iPhone in a brief. I thought the IPs head was going to explode.

Seriously? Was it because you didn't clear-cut a rain forest and burn through some more toner in order to print out a TAF for your brief in our "Paperless Navy"? Or was it simply because you did something in a manner that wasn't *gulp* the way it has always been done before?

When studs brief "Sources of Weather Information," they typically brief the traditional methods we have of obtaining wx, which is fine (and expected). 3710 is black-and-white as far as what wx sources we can officially use for pre-flight planning/filing, and those sources will always be the correct answer (at least until the next major 3710 re-write). They also brief the traditional in-flight sources, such as the different agencies we can radio enroute for updates.

However, I like to remind them that it's 2012, and we've got a few more tools at our disposal to enhance our Mission Analysis...including (especially?) our smart phones. Pretty much anything you normally get for pre-mission planning from the ODO, you can get on your smart phone (ADDS, NOTAMS, HEMS, etc.). When would this come in handy? If the weather has been questionable all day, and we decide to fly during a "break" in the wx (not uncommon in the Panhandle), I'd much rather learn about the pop-up cell that suddenly developed during the few minutes it took me to walk, read the book, and preflight while I'm on deck, rather than after I launch. If this means a quick check of the radar on my phone before I strap into the plane, so be it. At the very least, after taking a look at my phone, I could call back to the ODO or METRO for an update, and make a wx decision before I take off and potentially paint myself into a corner. Can we use mobile devices in flight? For the most part in Naval Aviation, not yet - and absolutely not in CNATRA's birds. That's fine, we'll eventually get there. However, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using everything available before you launch to build your SA and make good risk decisions. Our profession is too unforgiving not to.

What does 3710 have to say about this? Well, as the PIC, 4.6.1 says that I'm responsible for ensuring that "Adequate flight planning data, including NOTAM service, was available for complete and accurate planning." What is adequate and complete? Neither are specifically defined, but with all of the tools at our disposal in 2012, I'd like to think that adequate and complete doesn't mean a quick look at the TAF and NOTAMS as I walk out the door. Further, "Each pilot in a formation flight has received the required flight route weather briefing..." 3710 (4.8.3) says that online FWB is the primary source for wx, with 1-800-PILOTWX, FSS, or USAF/USMC wx as valid alternatives. As long as I adhere to 4.8.3's requirements for official wx briefing, you can bet I'm going to use any/all supplemental sources of information to build my SA before I slip the surly bonds.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
When studs brief "Sources of Weather Information," they typically brief the traditional methods we have of obtaining wx, which is fine (and expected). 3710 is black-and-white as far as what wx sources we can officially use for pre-flight planning/filing, and those sources will always be the correct answer (at least until the next major 3710 re-write). They also brief the traditional in-flight sources, such as the different agencies we can radio enroute for updates.

I'm convinced we're regressing on 3710 and planning. I think by the time V comes out, we'll only be allowed to use FWB as long as we have a CAC card and request our brief 9 hours before the flight (and it will expire 5 minutes after launch time).

Oh, and yeah, agree with your post.
 

SynixMan

HKG Based Artificial Excrement Pilot
pilot
Contributor
@C420, I use an iPad all the time in the HTs for briefing up to the min WX/NOTAMS, even planning a new instrument route the morning of a flight due to bad WX in one direction. Never had an IP who had an issue with it. A bunch even think it's cool and I've gone into 20+ min BS Sessions with some IPs about which flying apps are best. Granted, you're in gray aircraft now and iPads were just getting online when you were in the TRACOM, but they are pretty prevalent around these parts now.

You get a great mix of professional usage (WX/NOTAMS/Flight Planning information), personal (email, messaging, internet, whatever), and fun (games for shitty WX days), all in a compact package you can toss in your helmet bag and a battery that lasts for 10 hours and 3G internet.

Now, in the plane, on a kneeboard? Not there yet. I think a kindle style e-ink device with plates/charts would be awesome to update the probably 50+ lbs of paper charts/approach plates I threw out over my less than 2 yrs of flying. Can't wait for the trail run of those to make the sim instructor's heads explode.
 

KBayDog

Well-Known Member
I think by the time V comes out, we'll only be allowed to use FWB as long as we have a CAC card and request our brief 9 hours before the flight (and it will expire 5 minutes after launch time).

Sounds like the current system.

Right there with you. Our "official" sources are quite limited and not the most user-friendly (*cough* FWB *cough*), so I'm all about using whatever supplemental sources are available.

I wonder if we'll ever get on board with HEMS, or something similar. I won't hold my breath.
 

usmarinemike

Solidly part of the 42%.
pilot
Contributor
I like FWB. I don't use it for my actual source of weather (who does?) but it's the easiest way to get a -1. And believe it or not, I had a good experience with the guy who did weather in Meridian.

As for gear, I'd say one kneeboard in the T-45. It's ridiculously small. If you get in and realize you can use two, then buy another, but hold off until you see for yourself. For the record, you can walk on most flights with a kneeboard, inflight guide and PCL. You're still expected to carry the full load (his, lows, FIH, maps, IFR supp, etc).

A finger light would be good. If you're under the bag (have fun with that) then you can have all your cockpit lighting turned up and it won't really matter, but without the hood you have to have everything turned down. The dedicated kneeboard lights wouldn't aim properly at my leg bc I'm tall. A friend of mine swore by a red lens headlamp. A finger light worked fine for me.

I'm against a skull cap. Everybody still suggests wearing one, but I think it works against the superior design of the modern helmet liners. And don't fly without CEPs. I can't figure out why anybody wouldn't other than that they can go tits up during ACM when you're doing the contortionist thing. In that case, your helmet speakers still work. When I got to my current squadron they gave me CEPs with a heavier gauge wire so I doubt it'll be a problem again.

Also, congratulations. You're going to a fun place. IPs will be hard on you, even as an already winged aviator, but that's because nobody is going to shove their hand up your jet and fly it for you.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I know we're derailing the thread here, so I can split it later...

I like FWB. I don't use it for my actual source of weather (who does?) but it's the easiest way to get a -1. And believe it or not, I had a good experience with the guy who did weather in Meridian.

The TRACOMs have weather guys, which is a huge help compared to other places in the fleet. But the much bigger problem is that a -1 isn't actually required. So why limit my legal sources to (now) two places. DUATS isn't illegal (yet), but the new wording makes it a lot more gray as to whether it's kosher. And it's far faster than FWB and allows you to get specific info you want rather than listening to the weather briefer go on about occluded fronts and winds at altitudes you're not flying at (yes, I know you can steer his brief to what you know, but you get my point).
 

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
www.fltplan.com is your friend. They even have an app for your phone. When my DD-175 got lost (again) I filed from the cockpit with the motors running and had my clearance in less than 3 minutes.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
www.fltplan.com is your friend. They even have an app for your phone. When my DD-175 got lost (again) I filed from the cockpit with the motors running and had my clearance in less than 3 minutes.

I know we touched on this in another thread a few months ago and it's a great resource, my point in this thread was not with filing a flight plan, but with the requirement to obtain weather. 3710 is already hazy on DUATS, and it's specifically named. Throwing in another resource that's "outside the box" makes you non-compliant with OPNAV (in the strictest sense).

Never mind the fact that it's doing exactly the same thing and is incredibly useful. We can't be concerned with such details, apparently.
 

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
I know we touched on this in another thread a few months ago and it's a great resource, my point in this thread was not with filing a flight plan, but with the requirement to obtain weather. 3710 is already hazy on DUATS, and it's specifically named. Throwing in another resource that's "outside the box" makes you non-compliant with OPNAV (in the strictest sense).

Never mind the fact that it's doing exactly the same thing and is incredibly useful. We can't be concerned with such details, apparently.

We were told by our ASO that we could use it "if FWB was unavailable".

I deliberately haven't dug into any pubs trying to define that term any better. I often use both and the weather is almost always exactly the same, although its in a more digestible format on fltplan, of course.


* edit: I'm not just talking about filing. I'm talking about getting a weather brief. We are often away from a CAC enabled computer.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
We were told by our ASO that we could use it "if FWB was unavailable".

I don't blame you for not wanting to dig deeper, but I'd love to have documentation to back that up. It's always good to have another tool in the toolbox. (That's what she said).

I'm talking about getting a weather brief. We are often away from a CAC enabled computer.

Impossible. Every FBO has CAC readers. It's not like we'd design and be required to use a system that can't be used away from your work computer. Oh, wait...
 

gotta_fly

Well-Known Member
pilot
The -1 is an antiquated format which I think made a lot more sense before ADDS, IGRADS, and all the other tools we have at our disposal. That said, since I have to get one for now I've found that I can streamline that process by doing it all on the phone. I call in my brief request and have them email it to my personal email instead of the fax. Since I'm often out at the jet before they're done with the wx brief, I do all my own weather checks, then whenever the email comes in I open the pdf on my phone and verify that everything on it jives with what I saw before. I'm legal, and I'm not waiting around a fax machine for a brief that may not come. Plus I don't have to use FWB online, which is as accessible on Air Force bases as it is in FBOs.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The -1 is an antiquated format which I think made a lot more sense before ADDS, IGRADS, and all the other tools we have at our disposal. That said, since I have to get one for now I've found that I can streamline that process by doing it all on the phone. I call in my brief request and have them email it to my personal email instead of the fax. Since I'm often out at the jet before they're done with the wx brief, I do all my own weather checks, then whenever the email comes in I open the pdf on my phone and verify that everything on it jives with what I saw before. I'm legal, and I'm not waiting around a fax machine for a brief that may not come. Plus I don't have to use FWB online, which is as accessible on Air Force bases as it is in FBOs.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
At least most AFBs have a forecaster available to give you a -1, usually in about 10 minutes.

Brett
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
If nothing else, when there are countless layers stacked from here to the moronosphere, i.e. standard winter in the PacNW, it'd be nice if the top and bottom lines of the forecast on my NFWB -1 weren't "------- ----- ------" and "_____ ____ ____." Adjust the font so it doesn't overflow the space provided, please.
 
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