LOR vs Character Reference -- LASIK Waiver Availability -- Lying to MEPS under advisement of an OR

[Loofahs]

Hello, thank you everyone for this forum, it has been incredibly helpful.

Three questions that I either haven't found an answer for, or the answer I've found is significantly dated (6-8 years old):

1) I have been told by my Officer Recruiter that I do NOT need any Letters of Recommendation for a package. I called the head recruiting office in my district and he said the same thing (trust but verify), that letters of rec are no longer considered important to packages. Yet I come on this forum and nearly every single hopeful has 4 LORs from all sorts of military personnel and powerful individuals. What's the deal? I feel like this is a test so see if I won't bother to accrue some letters regardless and I'm not sure what to do. I don't want to waste the time of past professors and employers if it doesn't matter.
1b) What about Character References? My original OR said if I'm not currently employed then to not worry about them, but again I don't know if I should take initiative and start emailing past employers/people who have known me for a long time. Is there a specific form I should be using? DD370?

2) Are LASIK surgeries worth it? I have enough money saved to get the surgery, and I'm willing to wait the 180 days, but I don't know how available that waiver is, and my OR doesn't recommend doing anything that will create more hurdles for me to get past at MEPS, stating each hurdle decreases my chances of becoming an officer. How available and how much of a hassle are the eye surgery waivers?

3) My only health issue in the past 23 years has been a case of pneumonia ~2 years ago, in which I went to the hospital, they gave me some medicine, and sent me home 45 minutes later. I told my OR this, but since then I have been strongly advised by both him and the head recruiting office that I would be wise to retract my statement regarding having pneumonia. Otherwise MEPS will take excruciatingly long to get my paperwork finished, and I won't have enough time to have my physical and make it onto the December 16th NFO board. They say they only recommend this because it's obvious my case is in no way serious (IE asthma, schizophrenia, etc), nor will it put me or the Navy at risk. I am leaning toward sticking with my story and waiting around until the god damn April board, but the recruiters are making a very compelling argument. They are clearly not fans of MEPS or the work MEPS does. It seems to be a very "us vs. them" mentality. Advice?

If I missed any answers with the search bar I apologize, I have been searching vigorously for 3 days.
I appreciate any and all advice given.

 

[1AO_MR_GRAY]

1) I have been told by my Officer Recruiter that I do NOT need any Letters of Recommendation for a package. I called the head recruiting office in my district and he said the same thing (trust but verify), that letters of rec are no longer considered important to packages. Yet I come on this forum and nearly every single hopeful has 4 LORs from all sorts of military personnel and powerful individuals. What's the deal? I feel like this is a test so see if I won't bother to accrue some letters regardless and I'm not sure what to do. I don't want to waste the time of past professors and employers if it doesn't matter.

I am currently working on January SNA/NFO Board myself. My recruiter told me multiple times that I need an LOR from every employer in your last 3 years including my current employer. From what you said, I have a feeling it is more of a preference on who you are talking to. Someone else out there may be able to help more.

 

[HH-60H]

Hello, thank you everyone for this forum, it has been incredibly helpful.

Three questions that I either haven't found an answer for, or the answer I've found is significantly dated (6-8 years old):

1) I have been told by my Officer Recruiter that I do NOT need any Letters of Recommendation for a package. I called the head recruiting office in my district and he said the same thing (trust but verify), that letters of rec are no longer considered important to packages. Yet I come on this forum and nearly every single hopeful has 4 LORs from all sorts of military personnel and powerful individuals. What's the deal? I feel like this is a test so see if I won't bother to accrue some letters regardless and I'm not sure what to do. I don't want to waste the time of past professors and employers if it doesn't matter.
1b) What about Character References? My original OR said if I'm not currently employed then to not worry about them, but again I don't know if I should take initiative and start emailing past employers/people who have known me for a long time. Is there a specific form I should be using? DD370?

3) My only health issue in the past 23 years has been a case of pneumonia ~2 years ago, in which I went to the hospital, they gave me some medicine, and sent me home 45 minutes later. I told my OR this, but since then I have been strongly advised by both him and the head recruiting office that I would be wise to retract my statement regarding having pneumonia. Otherwise MEPS will take excruciatingly long to get my paperwork finished, and I won't have enough time to have my physical and make it onto the December 16th NFO board. They say they only recommend this because it's obvious my case is in no way serious (IE asthma, schizophrenia, etc), nor will it put me or the Navy at risk. I am leaning toward sticking with my story and waiting around until the god damn April board, but the recruiters are making a very compelling argument. They are clearly not fans of MEPS or the work MEPS does. It seems to be a very "us vs. them" mentality. Advice?

Overall, I have to say that I am troubled by the way you appear to be perceiving and interacting with the recruiters. First, you didn't believe your OR so you called his boss who said the same thing, and then you come here looking for validation of the opposite advice. Second, you state that the ORs are pushing you to lie.

I think you need to take a long hard look into your motivations for joining the Navy and how you perceive service members. Based on what I have read here, I'm not sure you'd be a good fit.

 

[EODDave]

Dude,

Things change and your OR has the most up to date info on what the board wants or doesn't want to see. They are not going to give you bum gouge. Go with it.

IRT the medical info. What they are probably telling you that unless you have written documentation and verification that you had pneumonia, then you didn't have it. Upper respiratory infection, or chest cold is way different. They are giving you guidance based on their experience. In 45 mins at a hospital, I think it would be hard to know you had pneumonia without the requisite testing. If the doc said you probably have pneumonia here take these, is way different than getting X-rays, blood work and an analysis of the crap in your chest. Being suspected of having something is vastly different from a varifiable condition. So, they'd are probably trying to help you help yourself. If you have all the documentation from the hospital and specialist showing you know shit had pneumonia and you want to submit that documentation to the board, have MEPS docs look at the info (takes time), then have at it.

Big picture here, is you need to start trusting what your OR is telling you.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Hello, thank you everyone for this forum, it has been incredibly helpful.

Three questions that I either haven't found an answer for, or the answer I've found is significantly dated (6-8 years old):

1) I have been told by my Officer Recruiter that I do NOT need any Letters of Recommendation for a package. I called the head recruiting office in my district and he said the same thing (trust but verify), that letters of rec are no longer considered important to packages. Yet I come on this forum and nearly every single hopeful has 4 LORs from all sorts of military personnel and powerful individuals. What's the deal? I feel like this is a test so see if I won't bother to accrue some letters regardless and I'm not sure what to do. I don't want to waste the time of past professors and employers if it doesn't matter.
1b) What about Character References? My original OR said if I'm not currently employed then to not worry about them, but again I don't know if I should take initiative and start emailing past employers/people who have known me for a long time. Is there a specific form I should be using? DD370?

2) Are LASIK surgeries worth it? I have enough money saved to get the surgery, and I'm willing to wait the 180 days, but I don't know how available that waiver is, and my OR doesn't recommend doing anything that will create more hurdles for me to get past at MEPS, stating each hurdle decreases my chances of becoming an officer. How available and how much of a hassle are the eye surgery waivers?

3) My only health issue in the past 23 years has been a case of pneumonia ~2 years ago, in which I went to the hospital, they gave me some medicine, and sent me home 45 minutes later. I told my OR this, but since then I have been strongly advised by both him and the head recruiting office that I would be wise to retract my statement regarding having pneumonia. Otherwise MEPS will take excruciatingly long to get my paperwork finished, and I won't have enough time to have my physical and make it onto the December 16th NFO board. They say they only recommend this because it's obvious my case is in no way serious (IE asthma, schizophrenia, etc), nor will it put me or the Navy at risk. I am leaning toward sticking with my story and waiting around until the god damn April board, but the recruiters are making a very compelling argument. They are clearly not fans of MEPS or the work MEPS does. It seems to be a very "us vs. them" mentality. Advice?

If I missed any answers with the search bar I apologize, I have been searching vigorously for 3 days.
I appreciate any and all advice given.

Couple of thoughts from the OR perspective...

The fact you are going around your OR is very concerning as an officer applicant. If, and only IF, you get into OCS and ultimately flight school, are you going to do the same thing to your Chief, Flight Instructor, etc.? I most certainly hope not... If you were my applicant, I would be extremely aggravated with your behavior, almost to the extent that I wouldn't recommend you for selection (see PAGE 4 on the APSR).

@EODDave hit the nail on the head with MEPS/medical so no need to piggyback what he said...

It's been said before, but you seriously need to trust your OR. They have the most up to date information, and in recruiting (as least as of late) things change oh so frequently. Right now, between your profile information and this post, you're what we like to call a "tool bag". Don't know what one is, see linked:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tool+bag&defid=1959463

Yup, see that, that's the road you're heading and it's going to make your life MISERABLE come OCS, flight school, and your operational squadron. I would highly recommend taking a round turn IMMEDIATELY, even apologizing to your OR, and BE HUMBLE.

I will turn this over to @NavyOffRec for a second OR opinion.

 

[Loofahs]

Overall, I have to say that I am troubled by the way you appear to be perceiving and interacting with the recruiters. First, you didn't believe your OR so you called his boss who said the same thing, and then you come here looking for validation of the opposite advice. Second, you state that the ORs are pushing you to lie.

I think you need to take a long hard look into your motivations for joining the Navy and how you perceive service members. Based on what I have read here, I'm not sure you'd be a good fit.

Couple of thoughts from the OR perspective...

The fact you are going around your OR is very concerning as an officer applicant. If, and only IF, you get into OCS and ultimately flight school, are you going to do the same thing to your Chief, Flight Instructor, etc.? I most certainly hope not... If you were my applicant, I would be extremely aggravated with your behavior, almost to the extent that I wouldn't recommend you for selection (see PAGE 4 on the APSR).

@EODDave hit the nail on the head with MEPS/medical so no need to piggyback what he said...

It's been said before, but you seriously need to trust your OR. They have the most up to date information, and in recruiting (as least as of late) things change oh so frequently. Right now, between your profile information and this post, you're what we like to call a "tool bag". Don't know what one is, see linked:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tool+bag&defid=1959463

Yup, see that, that's the road you're heading and it's going to make your life MISERABLE come OCS, flight school, and your operational squadron. I would highly recommend taking a round turn IMMEDIATELY, even apologizing to your OR, and BE HUMBLE.

I will turn this over to @NavyOffRec for a second OR opinion.

I genuinely had not considered that the way I'm acting could be considered morally suspect, or aggravating to the recruiter. I even believed that my OR would appreciate my persistence in trying to get more info while he is on leave this week.

I like my Officer Recruiter, he seems like a great guy and my double and triple checking isn't in any way meant to be an insult to him. I've just been very used to triple checking everything in my life before trusting it, no matter if it's my own work or the guidance of professors/recruiters.

My main takeaway is that I need to chill the fuck out or everyone is going to think I'm a tool bag. Not really the advice I expected or hoped for, but I appreciate it nonetheless.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

I genuinely had not considered that the way I'm acting could be considered morally suspect, or aggravating to the recruiter. I even believed that my OR would appreciate my persistence in trying to get more info while he is on leave this week.

I like my Officer Recruiter, he seems like a great guy and my double and triple checking isn't in any way meant to be an insult to him. I've just been very used to triple checking everything in my life before trusting it, no matter if it's my own work or the guidance of professors/recruiters.

My main takeaway is that I need to chill the fuck out or everyone is going to think I'm a tool bag. Not really the advice I expected or hoped for, but I appreciate it nonetheless.

You're still not getting it. When you're an officer and in a time-sensitive situation where lives are on the line, do you really think you have time to triple check? If the answer is YES, congrats shipmates just got injured or even died on your watch.

You have been provided way more advice on here other than to "chill the fuck out". Right now, your attitude and lack of understanding the "big picture" are not helping your cause to become a Naval Officer.

 

[Loofahs]

You're still not getting it. When you're an officer and in a time-sensitive situation where lives are on the line, do you really think you have time to triple check? If the answer is YES, congrats shipmates just got injured or even died on your watch.

You have been provided way more advice on here other than to "chill the fuck out". Right now, your attitude and lack of understanding the "big picture" are not helping your cause to become a Naval Officer.

RUFiO181, I genuinely did not mean to come off as having an attitude or being disrespectful. I am just trying to learn from what you, EODDave, and HH-60H are telling me, and I apologize if I misinterpreted it. I thought you were mainly concerned with what seems like my lack of trust in my OR, which is why I responded the way I did.

I believed that being overly meticulous would benefit me in the Navy, but I understand what you mean. I have no leadership experience in dangerous settings with lives on the line as you have described, so my hope was that OCS would teach me what kind of officer to be in those situations. Any other advice you have on this matter is appreciated.

While you are still giving me some harsh truths, I do have one question:

Right now, between your profile information and this post, you're what we like to call a "tool bag"

Does the information on my profile come off ass arrogant or douchey? I only listed information that I thought might be relevant to my package, but as an OR if you think there is something wrong with my information, or if it makes me seem like a tool bag, I would greatly appreciate advice so I don't come off that way on my actual package.

 

[Brett327]

Let's all throttle back a bit. Learning has occurred - give it time to sink in.

 

[SemperFiDay]

I think the chief issue is your pattern of distrust..and confidence in superiors. We all come to this website for information and most of us have been corrected on our approach by the main contributors in some fashion. Take the advice and think on it. Your insistence on snapping back or being defensive only adds evidence to a immaturity that will not serve the military.

 

[Loofahs]

I think the chief issue is your pattern of distrust..and confidence in superiors. We all come to this website for information and most of us have been corrected on our approach by the main contributors in some fashion. Take the advice and think on it. Your insistence on snapping back or being defensive only adds evidence to a immaturity that will not serve the military.

My parents were always big on instilling "trust but verify" in me when I was a kid, but obviously that won't fly in the Navy so it's something i'll be actively working on.

I also apparently need to work on how I write my responses, because that is the second time someone has perceived an attitude in my response, where none was intended. I would truly appreciate it if you could show me what parts of my response seemed to be snapping or defensive. I really need to learn what kinds of things I shouldn't say in the military.

 

[SemperFiDay]

@Loofahs Sir, there is nothing wrong with the logic your parents passed to you, however, making blanket presumption on what is expected in the Navy is also not going to do you any favors. The military is different, primarily because of the discipline aspect instilled in all members (officers & enlisted). You must learn to take criticism and adjust appropriately. However you may feel about that advice should be restrained, something you continue to demonstrate an inability to do. We are all lucky that a website like this exist and that experienced professionals like RuFio and others take time to answer and provide input. If you cannot appreciate the input, perhaps it is best that questions are asked elsewhere.

 

[Gatordev]

Forgetting the medical side of this for a moment...

Am I just reading a different thread than anyone else? If I just "trusted my seniors," I wouldn't have had a NROTC scholarship. Instead I called and double-checked the answer. Turns out a piece of paper wasn't filled out completely (and I'd argue, correctly), so it was corrected and boom, I had a scholarship (literally on the phone, it was awarded realtime).

Like Brett said, the info was passed and Loofahs has taken it onboard. I don't blame him for being super-motivated to Go Navy as soon as he can with all the ducks in a row.

As for the medical side...@Loofahs, heed what EODDave said. Unless it's on paper, it didn't happen. Trust me on that one.

 

[Sonog]

I genuinely had not considered that the way I'm acting could be considered morally suspect, or aggravating to the recruiter. I even believed that my OR would appreciate my persistence in trying to get more info while he is on leave this week.

I like my Officer Recruiter, he seems like a great guy and my double and triple checking isn't in any way meant to be an insult to him. I've just been very used to triple checking everything in my life before trusting it, no matter if it's my own work or the guidance of professors/recruiters.

My main takeaway is that I need to chill the fuck out or everyone is going to think I'm a tool bag. Not really the advice I expected or hoped for, but I appreciate it nonetheless.

The takeaway from this thread is you said some things that rubbed people the wrong way which subsequently created a "negative" image of yourself. Take their responses as all the criticism you need from it, shut up, and move on. Aviation is really tough on the guys who always feel like they have to keep talking when they're wrong.

I personally don't think you're a tool bag. But learning the phrases "copy", "got it", "I'll fix that, thanks", really go a long way.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Couple of thoughts from the OR perspective...

The fact you are going around your OR is very concerning as an officer applicant. If, and only IF, you get into OCS and ultimately flight school, are you going to do the same thing to your Chief, Flight Instructor, etc.? I most certainly hope not... If you were my applicant, I would be extremely aggravated with your behavior, almost to the extent that I wouldn't recommend you for selection (see PAGE 4 on the APSR).

@EODDave hit the nail on the head with MEPS/medical so no need to piggyback what he said...

It's been said before, but you seriously need to trust your OR. They have the most up to date information, and in recruiting (as least as of late) things change oh so frequently. Right now, between your profile information and this post, you're what we like to call a "tool bag". Don't know what one is, see linked:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tool+bag&defid=1959463

Yup, see that, that's the road you're heading and it's going to make your life MISERABLE come OCS, flight school, and your operational squadron. I would highly recommend taking a round turn IMMEDIATELY, even apologizing to your OR, and BE HUMBLE.

I will turn this over to @NavyOffRec for a second OR opinion.

I agree with what RUFIO said