Jets v Helos

[mb1k]

By the way, NATOPS Officer in a single seat jet squadron is usually some boot that just showed up of is a colatteral duty for the DOSS. It's an entry level JO job for us, not an all encompassing SME on minutia.

That's another Bizzaro/Mirror-Universe'ism. In a LAMPS SQ, the NATOPS O is the golden ticket JO job, better yet if it's won by a first tour LT. Usually it's been a second tour LT who's two below for LCDR.

Just plain blows my mind...

 

[SemperGumbi]

Your ground job shows what kind of officer you are. That's why I said "break themselves out as pilots", instead of officers.

In my mind, you will always be judged on 3 areas in a squadron.

1) Piloting skill.
2) Ground job.
3) Personality/bar act.

If you have two of these areas covered well, people will still want you in the squadron. You'll do fine.

Well, off to the simulator and then the bar. I am happy to know I can suck at my ground job (it was inevitable anyway).

 

[insanebikerboy]

1) They don't have an ejection seat. Whatever happens, they are going to have to deal with it until landing, even if it's at 10000 FPM rate of descent. If what they memorize helps them do that or makes them feel better, then it works for them.

Probably a big part of it there.

I'm in agreement with Gator, there's just some stuff that I don't think has any bearing on how to fly the helicopter. Sure, if you wanna be Natops bingo winner everytime, learn how many microns the fuel filter is, etc, but when I see a #1 Fuel Filter Bypass light come on, all I need to know is the thing is clogged and the EP for it.

Spending time on that crap just wastes time for the other important stuff, like beer. :tongue2_1

 

[Gatordev]

That's another Bizzaro/Mirror-Universe'ism. In a LAMPS SQ, the NATOPS O is the golden ticket JO job, better yet if it's won by a first tour LT. Usually it's been a second tour LT who's two below for LCDR.

Just plain blows my mind...

I know it's cyclical and command dependent, but it was always a senior HAC that had the job in my tenure (although not always the #1 guy). They also were usually very reasonable on the systems knowledge. Funny how that turns out.

In my mind, you will always be judged on 3 areas in a squadron.

1) Piloting skill.
2) Ground job.
3) Personality/bar act.

And therein may lie part of the problem. I'm not sure if you were ordering them in (your perceived) importance, but for LAMPS, based on what I saw, the order was:

1. Ground job
2. Piloting skill
3. Personality

Sometimes 2 and 3 could be interchangeable. That's not to say that piloting skill wasn't important for the JOs, but for some O-4s and up, it was secondary. Again, all in my limited experience.

 

[Harrier Dude]

I'm not sure if you were ordering them in (your perceived) importance, but for LAMPS, based on what I saw, the order was:

1. Ground job
2. Piloting skill
3. Personality

Sometimes 2 and 3 could be interchangeable. That's not to say that piloting skill wasn't important for the JOs, but for some O-4s and up, it was secondary. Again, all in my limited experience.

I wasn't. They're all important, and it's equally important that a squadron doesn't get too heavy on one thing. It's just my opinion, but I came to it after a lot of observation over the years. Take these 4 examples from their JOPA days (real people but names hidden to protect the guilty):

Capt.#1) Awesome stick. Great flight leadership. Always gets the mission safely executed. Peacetime air medal for outstanding handling of a compound emergency that the engineers said couldn't be flown. Funniest guy in the squadron. Great guy to see at the club. Always in a great mood and a major smartass. Consistently sets low standards for his ground job and fails to acheive them. Status------>Will be a LtCol next year.

Capt.#2) Squadron WTI. MAWTS instructor to RAG IP. 20 pound brain. High vis job at NAVAIR that had deep impact on the entire community. Handles every ground job with ease and gets award after award for his effort. Singlehandedly runs the squadron at times. Absolutely hated by his peers. Complete and total tool to all that know him well. Status------>Post command Colonel.

Capt.#3) Has a ground job far beyond his experience level and out performs his counterparts in other squadrons. Great guy and is well like in the entire MAG. Fun to be around. A fixture at any party and always willing to help out with any problem you might have. Weak stick. Not dangerous, but is always the last guy of his peers to get a qual. Gets his division lead the day before he PCS's to a staff tour, where he does very well. Status------>LtCol.

Capt.#4) Mediocre stick at best. Hilarious and fun to party with. Could be a stand up comedian if he wanted to. Would give you the shirt off his back to anybody in need. Close personal friend to all JOPA. Completely fails at his ground job. CO/XO hates him. Status------>He got out when it was evident that no squadron would take him. He was facing a life on group staff at best.

A squadron needs a balance of 1-3. Not all 1's. It could survive all 2's and 3's but it wouldn't be any fun and wouldn't really thrive. Lots of the surrounding 1's would get out as a result rather than take orders there. 4's have no place to go and rarely survive their initial obligated service.

That's just how I see it.

 

[HuggyU2]

In my mind, you will always be judged on 3 areas in a squadron.

1) Piloting skill.
2) Ground job.
3) Personality/bar act.

I like this. I've never heard it put quite this simple, but I have to steal it. HarrierDude, do you mind?
BTW, I know a guy who sucks at all three: what should be done to him??

 

[Harrier Dude]

BTW, I know a guy who sucks at all three: what should be done to him??

Nothing. He's already in the air force.

 

[Gatordev]

Words

All makes sense to me. Didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing w/ your assessment. I agree.

BTW, I know a guy who sucks at all three: what should be done to him??

We had one in my last squadron. Pretty much couldn't do anything well, but very intelligent. Ironically enough, he went to an AF command for schooling (or something...not really sure...didn't really care).

 

[mb1k]

BTW, I know a guy who sucks at all three: what should be done to him??

And he got into to U-2s and I didn't?!?

 

[Harrier Dude]

And he got into to U-2s and I didn't?!?

That's a good question. I thought there was a fairly rigid screening for U2s. As kind of a "self selecting" community (so I've heard) isn't it relatively easy for you guys to keep the choads out?

Some of my buddies fly them now and had to jump through all kinds of hoops. I think that they had to interview with somebody at the U2 command. Is that true, or does that only apply for interservice transfers? Do you ever get folks that "just show up out of nowhere" from inside the air force?

 

[bunk22]

I've flown both trainer jets and props. Not sure if the systems are necessarily easier in aircraft like the Hornet vs a P-3 but the fact you can punch out goes a long way. Granted, some folks in the E2/C2 community took it way overboard. Questions like....what do the cams do on the alpha and beta shaft? My response would be how would that knowledge help me in an emergency, especially being you can't do anything about the cams or the shafts (I said shaft ). The IP's use to say it's professional knowledge...hey, whatever helps ya sleep better at night. I never asked those questions. If it isn't going to help you in an emergency, fuck it.

 

[HuggyU2]

Ah, you all are assuming the person I'm referring to is in the U-2 and/or USAF. In any case, yes we interview. But no interview process is perfect. We've got a great group, but we get "one of them" every now and then.
HarrierDude: If you're referring to Juice and Vick, great guys. Absolutely top notch.

 

[mb1k]

Huggy,

U-2s still open? I have a T-45 IP down here interested.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Ah, you all are assuming the person I'm referring to is in the U-2 and/or USAF. In any case, yes we interview. But no interview process is perfect. We've got a great group, but we get "one of them" every now and then.
HarrierDude: If you're referring to Juice and Vick, great guys. Absolutely top notch.

Indeed I was! You might ask them about their interview to get out of the Marine Corps with Beans. Gotta love it.

 

[xmid]

With beans?