Where did the other 45 get detailed? Seems like a huge number. Was it an abnormally large nom round?
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It's finally happening . . . Big Navy is canning the stack rank FITREP/Eval
- Thread starter nittany03
- Start date
I think I know exactly who you're referring to which makes this even funnier.
From what I've seen that's pretty standard which is what I was referring to in my other posts.
Yeah. That's what I was referring to with my other posts. Like I said, I'm still doing quite well around here but that doesn't mean I don't see a problem with the way were doing it. The only I'll add is that HSC-CVW has 2 dad's in CDRE and CAG whereas the exped side is wholely owned by CDRE which causes a notable split in the community.
So what's the ultimate product end-state here? I'm really not clear on how this "update" is going to help what's being talked about in this thread. Seems like quals are driving the show. The weapons schools are driving the quals, which can only be earned by a few, resulting in a system where ducks tend to pick ducks. For better or worse, that seems to be the 80-90% solution across multiple communities. Is there likely to be more wiggle-room in the "golden path" under the proposed system? Is that the intent?
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Pretty standard numbers now. They go to the off track jobs you can imagine. Station SAR, C-12s/C-26s, NROTC, USNA, Wing Staff, etc. HSC as a whole has become stupidly unsustainable. PERS is manning input on the left side to fill fleet seats for a crazy number of helo commitments that never materialized and aren't resourced.
Edit. I've been on shore duty for a year now, so may have changed, but people rotating in haven't been telling a rosier picture.
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the SWTP .6 correct this and make HAC and ASUW married up now? ASUW could technically be earned without HAC, but not the other way around?
Since we're bashing on RW, and rightfully so, both HSM and HSC baby the HAC process. I remember being on a CQ one night and some of the T-45's were hitting their bingo and the DH OIC at the time said "Damn, those guys are real pilots." I had to ask "are you suggesting that we couldn't find our way back to North Island if we hit our bingo?" He answered affirmatively. I was stunned. It killed me to think I, and my peers were thought of so lowly. It shouldn't take so long to make HAC. ASUW Level 3? Sure. But not basic HAC.
Also, I don't see how these changes fix FITREP issues outside possibly reducing the effect of bad timing if there annual reviews based on when the member showed up vice the January and CoC shenanigans that happen each time.
The numbers previously given about nom-round competitiveness seem about right to me. I just did the math of my peer group. 43% went to either Station SAR or non flying gigs (against their wishes); and there's one that took a production job offer but whose FITREP will not be good enough past that.
It's funny you say that. Every time I hear HT's are behind on production, on the Navy side, I am always thinking "where?" If anything we were fighting each other for flight hours, not begging for more pilots. HSC-CVW took the HS squadron, reduced the number of missions by one (no more ASW) and almost doubled the amount of JO's. How did no one see this happening?
So the issue is one of helo community manning, not one of FITREPS. Understood.
Yea and no. I bet most helo/VP types think kneecapping timing stuff could help, but it's not going to fix the law of big summary groups and golden paths.
There are wardrooms with 30+ JOs and I think 15 HSC squadrons, so by the very nature of the design there's just not enough slots. While every organization in the Navy is a pyramid to the top, in HSC I think it's much more drastic in between the JO and DH levels. When you add in the wings +8, dudes are left hanging and forced into shitty non-flying jobs when a few years ago they could just get out.
...it's almost like that was like...by design or something.... you know? Odd.
It doesn't help that Big Navy is one of the myopic organizations on the face of the earth. This whole firescout thing is going to create more problems because, right now, big Navy is planning on first tour JOs flying that thing which means you'll have more of them getting pumped through just to fly a drone which also means they'll be even more unqualified (through truly no fault of their own) and even more of them trying to NOM.
I don't think there's a problem with the 8 years deal. The problem starts after that when 1/2 the people aren't making DH and then about 3/4 of those who do make DH won't screen for command (which is heavily weighted towards patch wearers so if you ain't got that going for you then you're even less likely to make it) which means you spend 8 more years or so in the Navy doing jack and shit related to aviation or flying. Meanwhile, see above comment, you've got Big Navy creating even more JOs in this community who aren't going to get qualified and who will be screwed. If only we could come up with some kind of alternate career path for people who just want to keep flying who could alternate between flying drones and filling jobs at squadrons so there weren't 30+ JOs fighting for table scraps and the existing resources could be spent on getting those JOs qualified. Hmmm.....
It's not the case on the HSM side. HAC used to be coupled with LVL 3 (sometime around 2004) but was recently uncoupled. However, if you're not a LVL 3 as a HAC by the time you're going out the door to deploy, something is wrong. I can't quote you the DRRS numbers, but for a detachment/CEL, I think all of your HACs have to be LVL 3 to be green.
DHs need to be LVL 4, but I'm not sure if the detachment mindset drives that or if it's something else. But even in HSL land, I had to be a LVL 4 as an OIC.
The Navy decision makers thought they were being smart in capitalizing on an asset they had in aviators they could send to the boat and save money by fitting them into billets they couldn't get SWOs or their careerist aviators to otherwise fill. They were myopic in not seeing how most would FOS out or quit and they'd have to fill those billets at twice the rate of normal. So while those folks thought they were saving money, they have ended up wasting it PCSing and training people for a job they'll likely quit or get fired from. And for those people who do promote, many are likely to quit since their obligation ends on the most absolutely horrible tour of their career. Take for example my buddy who swore he'd go DH and was going to get a EP on the boat from his DIVO job as a shooter. He then asked for a P and an adverse FITREP so he could FOS out. I don't know if this is somehow a big force shaping tool by the Navy, but it seems effective at getting people out of the Navy. And unlike the Air Force who paid people to get out of their contracts early and go make a killing in the airlines, the Navy seems to be taking actions to get people to quit so they don't even have to pay them a severance. Hmmm....
Interesting perspective, Baconator, and what situation does the USAF find itself in these days?