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USN HT's a calamity

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
You can get a CDI on the iPad. My 1,500 mile trip to Oshkosh in a plane with only a speedometer and an altimeter would have been terrible without it. I had a hard time convincing my old man to use it on the legs he was flying and they ended up looking more like sideways smilie faces...

Probably true, but 99% of them are just doing point to point navigation on foreflight with no comprehension for using a CDI. I stand by my point based on my experience with them.
 

IKE

Nerd Whirler
pilot
You can't handle the geeking out.
Talked to a helo guru. Short answer: it's complicated.

Long answer: Most hawks have 18° of negative twist from root to tip, which helps even out profile drag across the length of the blade. Collective pitch at the pitch change horns is positive with full-down collective, but less than 18°. When you're spinning, the blades twist, increasing alpha, but the average pitch may still be negative at minimum collective. So, yes, it's reasonable to see torque decrease slightly with initial collective pull. Was it designed for this downthrust purpose, or just a result of designing for hover and forward flight efficiency? Dunno.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
2. Keep the guy in the back engaged and not asleep / texting,

No shit, when I was a HT stud, a guy got attrited for day-trading (which, let's be honest, is basically the same as texting) in the back seat. I don't think anyone was all that upset when he was let go.

1. They routinely take their hands off the controls to zoom in and out.

I get the limitations of the -57, but for the love of God, we need to stop programming kids to be afraid of taking their hands off of the controls...most importantly when we're completely shutdown and just trying to do the damn SAS/Boost check.

2. They stop a VFR scan and get sucked into it deep, even if they are the PAC.

Unfortunately, they do the same with the GEOSIT page, or the whatever else shiny object is being displayed on the MPD.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
I get the limitations of the -57, but for the love of God, we need to stop programming kids to be afraid of taking their hands off of the controls...most importantly when we're completely shutdown and just trying to do the damn SAS/Boost check.
A lot of that is because the collective on the Bell has a friction lock but no force trim- a year or two ago, a couple of IPs spread the skids by letting go of the collective in a hover with the friction dialed all the way off (friction was off because that's part of the control/hydraulics check procedure these days).

Still no excuse, but it helps explain why everybody is so gun shy coming out of the pipeline.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
[
I get the limitations of the -57, but for the love of God, we need to stop programming kids to be afraid of taking their hands off of the controls...most importantly when we're completely shutdown and just trying to do the damn SAS/Boost check.
This. I remember folks freaking out about guys taking their hands off the controls in the 60 which is pretty much designed to be flown hands off so the AFCS will do the work. Turns out if you fly with you feet on the pedals you're depressing the micro switches and are effectively turning off that portion of the magic.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
A lot of that is because the collective on the Bell has a friction lock but no force trim- a year or two ago, a couple of IPs spread the skids by letting go of the collective in a hover with the friction dialed all the way off (friction was off because that's part of the control/hydraulics check procedure these days).

Still no excuse, but it helps explain why everybody is so gun shy coming out of the pipeline.
there needs to be a dedicated 57/HT deprogramming day at the FRS. Convective sigmets aren't the same as a WW, you can take your hands off the controls, don't unload the head, etc.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
there needs to be a dedicated 57/HT deprogramming day at the FRS. Convective sigmets aren't the same as a WW, you can take your hands off the controls, don't unload the head, etc.
And trimming it into a turn/don't trim it into a turn. There was good reason to do that in the 57 and not push against the trim, just as there was good reason to only push against the trim in the 60.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
Some of those things are training-isms. Some are part of using basically a light civil helicopter for training.

Do we need something bigger and more representative of fleet aircraft, or does that increase the cost too much? Plus, training damage adds up a lot quicker on a bigger machine...e.g. try paying for spread skids on anything bigger than a 206! Easy Class C territory.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Some of those things are training-isms. Some are part of using basically a light civil helicopter for training.

Do we need something bigger and more representative of fleet aircraft, or does that increase the cost too much? Plus, training damage adds up a lot quicker on a bigger machine...e.g. try paying for spread skids on anything bigger than a 206! Easy Class C territory.
Concur. That's why the skills that translate to a fleet a/c and those that don't should be identified. Purge the ones that are no longer applicable in grey airplanes.

It would take ~1yr from wings to reprogram nuggets that you can't just dump the collective in the 60 like you can in the 57. Saw it in the fleet Squadron and as a Mini. Even the 53 nuggets would do it.
 

Hotdogs

I don’t care if I hurt your feelings
pilot
A lot of that is because the collective on the Bell has a friction lock but no force trim- a year or two ago, a couple of IPs spread the skids by letting go of the collective in a hover with the friction dialed all the way off (friction was off because that's part of the control/hydraulics check procedure these days).

Still no excuse, but it helps explain why everybody is so gun shy coming out of the pipeline.

I just have a weird feeling that friction adjustment/flight control/force trim checks is probably in the start/post-start checks in that bird too. Again it's been some time, but I'm genuinely surprised they spread the skids in a hover. Must have been some fat ass IPs.
 

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
I get the limitations of the -57, but for the love of God, we need to stop programming kids to be afraid of taking their hands off of the controls...most importantly when we're completely shutdown and just trying to do the damn SAS/Boost check.

I wasn't a huge "YOU MUST KEEP YOUR HANDS ON THE CONTROLS" guy in the 60 and thought it was stupid when I had an XO who threatened to bench indefinitely people he caught doing it (despite the Skipper being a routine offender), but in the the 57, you really need to. And, I'm not just talking collective, the first student I ever let use the tablet, he took his hands off collective and cyclic immediately after start (waiting for the 1 minute idle time) to adjust his iPad - which is also when the PC is IN THE ROTOR ARC (!), then again both hands off during flight twice. To me, that's egregious, especially in the 57, and also inexcusable in the 60. Is it less of a risk in the 60? Sure. But it's a terrible habit to say "I have the controls" and let go of all of them except yaw.
 

Hotdogs

I don’t care if I hurt your feelings
pilot
To me, that's egregious, especially in the 57, and also inexcusable in the 60. Is it less of a risk in the 60? Sure. But it's a terrible habit to say "I have the controls" and let go of all of them except yaw.

I think what you are trying to say is that.... judgement applies. Anytime somebody is inside the rotor arc, there should be a set of paws on the sticks. However, to say taking your hands off of the controls is always a bad thing is just not true. You would hate the Cobra. During arm/dearm, control surfaces are separated between pilots (One braces cyclic w/ knees, one has pedals with ordies inside the arc) and I routinely take my hands off the sticks to shorthand 9 lines/sit updates, switch armament selections, troubleshoot systems on the fly, throw grids in the Nav system, switch lighting, and at 15-20 degrees nose up before I lower the nose onto a target, I take my hand off of the collective to turn the master arm on.

There's a balance, but being overly conservative does not always translate well to the fleet. HOCAS is also pretty fucking sweet tool if you got it.
 

fc2spyguy

loving my warm and comfy 214 blanket
pilot
Contributor
Staying engaged in the back seat. I remember doing a BI out and in. I was back seat and noticed the IP pull a cb for one of the gauges. Gave the guy up front a little time for him to notice. He didn't. So, me being the nice buddy gave him the universal, hey something is fucked up seatbelt tug. Well, he wasn't doing well and the IP asked if he was ok. His response was "the asshole in back keeps tugging my seatbelt." IP laughs his ass off because I just got blue falconed and I had only given the guy like two tugs. . .
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
Concur. That's why the skills that translate to a fleet a/c and those that don't should be identified. Purge the ones that are no longer applicable in grey airplanes.

It would take ~1yr from wings to reprogram nuggets that you can't just dump the collective in the 60 like you can in the 57. Saw it in the fleet Squadron and as a Mini. Even the 53 nuggets would do it.
What? You don't like to see your checklist float in the air?
 
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