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HT Advice/Gouge Thread

#1
Hey AW, I know many of you guys are helo pilots, and some of you were/are HT IPs. I'm in Advance Pool right now, just looking for some direction as far as what to prepare for in Advanced. I've gotten my digital copies of the material from book issue but I'm looking for direction as far as where I should start studying and what the emphasis should be prior to ground school (i.e. do I need to start looking at course rules or should I be hitting the Aero workbook hard).

Are there any areas of information that you typically see lacking in students? Is there some advice you wish you had gotten early on/stuff you pass to your on-wings for success?
 

Jim123

molding (warping) the future of naval aviation
pilot
#2
Not so much because you asked but because you have a picture of Ted Striker in your avatar (and instead of telling you to use the search engine),

If API and primary academics were challenging then read ahead on the ground school stuff (aero, course rules).

If nailing your EPs was challenging in primary, then study the EPs- memory items and notes/warnings/cautions, just like primary. You should have a working knowledge of the non-memory steps, but it's hard to do that when you haven't even classed up yet.

Normal procedures- you're going to have a fam partner to study these with and your onwing is going to lay out expectations for both of you when that time comes. I wouldn't waste any effort right now learning "down, right, idle, turn" or "trim the controls in a neutral position, establish a hover scan out, down, and it..."

Most importantly, hang out with your friends and enjoy the time off. If the pool is phone mustering on most days then hopefully nobody screws that one up anytime soon (sooner or later it happens).
 
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AllYourBass

Mistrap Queen
pilot
#3
Hey AW, I know many of you guys are helo pilots, and some of you were/are HT IPs. I'm in Advance Pool right now, just looking for some direction as far as what to prepare for in Advanced. I've gotten my digital copies of the material from book issue but I'm looking for direction as far as where I should start studying and what the emphasis should be prior to ground school (i.e. do I need to start looking at course rules or should I be hitting the Aero workbook hard).

Are there any areas of information that you typically see lacking in students? Is there some advice you wish you had gotten early on/stuff you pass to your on-wings for success?
Not sure if the EPs are up-to-date (probably are though, lol), but here's my digital EP/limits flash card deck for the program Anki. FYI, I've been using this program since college and I credit it entirely for my degree, wings and HAC letter. Plug for Anki: You can sync your decks and progress across all devices/platforms (e.g., PC, Mac, iPhone, Android, browser). Huge fan. Free on every platform except iPhone where it's around $20.
 

DanMa1156

Land of the Milk and Honey.
pilot
Contributor
#4
I'd avoid studying the aero workbook - that thing is way too much for a SNA without guidance as to what to study. Stick with NATOPS Ch. 2 which matches the systems FTI now, along with Chapter 4 limits and Ch. 12 EP's. Course rules probably won't make too much sense, but if you're going to study them, I'd exclusively look at how to get to and from Spencer and Pace OLFs for now.
 

AllYourBass

Mistrap Queen
pilot
#5
Course rules probably won't make too much sense, but if you're going to study them, I'd exclusively look at how to get to and from Spencer and Pace OLFs for now.
Speaking of Course Rules, here's a Google Maps version for you to hang onto. I found that link in my Gmail when I was searching for the below email. I was going to PM it to you, but I realized others may come along and use the Search function and find this thread, so I'm just going to paste it here.

The following is an email I sent to an incoming class at HT-18 when I was a week out from my winging date. Hope it's helpful. I expect most of the links do not work anymore, but you'll probably have updated sources from people who are slightly ahead of you.

--------

Hey guys,

First off, welcome again to HT-18. It's an awesome squadron and you're going to have a good time. I've listed out as much as I can remember regarding the beginning of Advanced and the resources I used to help through the program, so I hope it winds up being useful to you. If you find or create any additional resources that work for you, be a pal and pass it along to your friends!

Foreword
As with Primary, make sure to check all gouge against the FTI/RWOP/OPNAV/etc. I distinctly remember the gouge being wrong about EP steps because they were updated after the gouge was written. Use it as a springboard, but always study from the primary source materials. I would usually check the MPTS for my briefing items, look at what Alek's Gouge/MarineGouge had to say about both, then check the source material.

Study priorities
You've probably already gotten your schedule for ground school. If you haven't, you will pretty soon. For the systems/aero classes, make sure to read through the workbooks and reference the gouge. You'll probably get a fairly good review before each exam. Check MarineGouge and Alek's Gouge for any gouge you can find on the systems/aero tests.

While those classes will be your top priorities, there are a lot of other things to know by CPT #1, which you'll potentially have the next work day after your last test. It's annoying at first because you'll be rote-memorizing EPs that talk about things like keeping Nf/Ng in operating range and autorotating without actually knowing what any of that stuff is or how it works. It's alright, just learn it by memory and it'll make sense soon.
By CPT #1: You'll want a firm grasp of the EPs, limits and checklists, and you'll want to be able to complete a blindfolded cockpit check in the TH-57B. To accomplish that, you'll need to work some of that studying in during ground school. If you haven't already, I'd strongly suggest creating a TH-57 EPs/Limits deck (or you can use the one I attached for Anki, or Google a deck somebody made on Quizlet or something).
  • EPs and Limits: Flash cards are pretty much the way to go. I recommend learning all the EPs to include the Charlie steps. There are only a few EPs that have additional steps for the Charlie model, but it's much easier to learn those extra steps now than it is to recondition your rote memorization later.
    • Hot tip: Don't just learn the name of the EP and then spout it out. Make sure to learn the indications and be able to recognize what is happening when your gauges start reacting a certain way. The way my buddies and I quizzed each other at the time was like this: "You're flying along and all of a sudden you start to yaw right and your engine is making a ton of noise. Your Nr, Nf, Ng and TOT needles all increasing...", to which the other guy would go, "I've got an engine overspeed, so I'm going to 1. Twist grip: Reduce to maintain Nf/Nr in operating range......"
    • I think CPT #3 is the limits/caution panel CPT. For this, be able to point to a gauge, name its power source (DC/pitot/etc.), name its limits and name any EPs associated with that gauge. It's less daunting than it sounds. I attached a file to this email that may help with memorizing the caution panel information.
  • Checklists: All the checklists in Advanced will entail a challenge from the instructor (who is reading from your PCL) and a response from you. You will be doing it from memory, so no quadfold or second PCL. Use the issued checklist packet to help you start out. Try to learn all the checklists as soon as you can, and then practice them in the hangar and then eventually a practice CPT (if you get the chance).
  • Cockpit check: Try to get over to the hangar and practice these in the cockpit. For the blind check, learn the layout of all the gauges and then figure out where all the switches are. Take turns quizzing each other and you'll have it down in less than an hour.

By Fam 0: You'll additionally want a firm grasp of aircraft preflight and Contact course rules. For the preflight, practice in the hangar and reference the PowerPoints on Factoryhand University and anything labeled "Preflight" in the Gouge file (asking a maintenance person in the hangar is a great idea). For Course Rules, use the gouge, Google Maps files and RWOP. Course rules generally encompasses these topics:
  • Homefield operations (taxi lines, fuel pits, pattern direction, maintenance patterns, departure/arrival, etc.)
  • How to get to/from each contact-phase OLF (Spencer, Pace, Site 8, Santa Rosa)
  • Operations at those OLFs (e.g., where do you perform normal landings/autos/sliding landings, how many aircraft each side, how do you split the field for entry, which corner do you depart, where is the fuel shack if there is one, etc.)
Don't neglect practicing checklists and preflights as much as you can, because you might not do them very often if you are hotseating frequently.


GOUGE SOURCES
Here are all the gouge sources that I was aware of throughout Advanced. If you find anything else, make sure to pass it along to your buddies.
MarineGouge
http://marinegouge.com/mediawiki-1.17.0/index.php?title=Advanced_Helicopters-url

This site was extremely helpful. It was very useful to check MarineGouge and Alek's Gouge for an initial overview of my events.

———

Alek's Gouge
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kk4fe3ik34mkhtr/PFSC5D2ns7

This gouge is a little bit disorganized but it has a bunch of useful stuff. I used it as my primary gouge source through CPTs and Contacts. Check MarineGouge too, though—it might be really good for the early stuff, I just didn't know about it until I was past those stages.

———

Some other Dropbox
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bb8pagtxmcjwqom/127zl5GyhD

I don't remember if I used anything from this one but, hey, more stuff. Take a look through it for your events and see if you can glean anything useful.

———

Course Rules
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zS0PrqMPtTJw.k4BklImaSo_M&pli=1
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zW9Q-lhiIivg.k-ZtTz9gUka4&msa=0&dg=feature

I like the second link better, but both are good. Click on the colored lines to see descriptions, which include calls that need to be made, courses, checkpoint descriptions, etc. What worked for me was talking through these course rules with my onwing partner. We'd talk through all courses/calls throughout departure, enroute, arriving/operating/departing OLF, then back home.


OTHER STUFF
I'm just braindumping anything else I can think of that was useful, so here goes.
Anki
This is a flashcard program that you can either download for PC/Apple or for Android/iPhone (the iPhone version costs, but Android is free). I've used it since college and it's amazing, so I preach it whenever I can. The program uses spaced repetition so that you're seeing the easy cards less frequently and the harder cards more frequently. It was an awesome way to choke down a truckload of EPs really quickly, and I've reviewed the deck a couple times every week ever since the beginning. I attached the EPs/Limits cards I made for Anki to this email so that you can import it if you download the program.

Factoryhand University
This is HT-18's resource website. It's got all the updated pubs, preflight gouge, jetlog templates, etc. It's helpful to check this site for anything that might be useful throughout the various phases. HT-8's Eightball University has even more useful stuff, so give that a look too.

Google Drive links
The following are some files I typed up for myself and sent to my class. Feel free to use them!
  • Overview of all the systems: This may be helpful during systems class. I made it toward the end of flight school for the last checkride.
  • Systems test gouge: This was the test review I got from my instructor on the day before our test.
  • Aero exam gouge: I think this came from MarineGouge or Skinner but I am not sure.
  • Instrument Precheck: This has a ton of stuff from the OPNAV, FAR-AIM, etc. You won't need it until your final block of RIs, but it may be helpful when you get there. I never finished it, but the important stuff (i.e., OPNAV) is all there.

——————————————————————————

That's all I can think of for now. Advanced is a ton of work and a ton of fun. If you learn any useful information, pass it on to your buddies!
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
#6
I'd avoid studying the aero workbook
Do they actually teach aero now? When I went through, it was a one hour class and then you took the test on your own time when you were ready. I don't know how many times I read about induced flow trying to make sense of it until finally one morning it just clicked and I ran to the testing center while I still retained the info.
 

Pags

Well-Known Member
pilot
#7
I remember there was a big push to increase RW Aero understanding after a lack of fundamental RW aero knowledges was shown to be causal to a couple of mishaps.
 

Jim123

molding (warping) the future of naval aviation
pilot
#9
I remember there was a big push to increase RW Aero understanding after a lack of fundamental RW aero knowledges was shown to be causal to a couple of mishaps.
Yep- fleet and training command.

About five years ago (maybe longer ago than that, I can't remember) we added the Aero 2 ground school to the student syllabus. This is about a week of classroom time on more advanced helo aerodynamics. One problem is it wasn't testable so the students didn't pay attention. Another problem is it was pretty advanced stuff for the target audience.

Plenty of blame to go around, going back many years, in an institutional sense. Exhibit A is the flight characteristics chapter of the SH-60B NATOPS manual revision c2003, when some nitwit cut and pasted a bunch of numbers from the Bell 206 flight manual and then a bunch of other nitwits with a lot of authority blindly signed off on it, thus making it community gospel truth. Exhibit B is the Navy H-60 autorotation instruction c2008, which implemented many detail changes to how to do the maneuver in the 60, changes for the better, but many of then were contradictory to the gospel truth that some of the RAGs had been teaching for years.

My personal cynicism an accusatory language aside (it's disheartening to see bad gouge from such high levels last so long), naval helicopters as a whole does get better when people push for positive change.

edit- other than those examples, most of our collective aero knowledge and training is spot-on. But there are glaring exceptions from time to time.
 
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Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
#13
Exhibit A is the flight characteristics chapter of the SH-60B NATOPS manual revision c2003, when some nitwit cut and pasted a bunch of numbers from the Bell 206 flight manual and then a bunch of other nitwits with a lot of authority blindly signed off on it, thus making it community gospel truth. Exhibit B is the Navy H-60 autorotation instruction c2008, which implemented many detail changes to how to do the maneuver in the 60, changes for the better, but many of then were contradictory to the gospel truth that some of the RAGs had been teaching for years.
When I came back to LAMPS after SUPERHAWK was a thing, I was pleasantly surprised that the flight characteristics section was matching a bunch of the aero I had just learned at ASO school. In hindsight, I agree it's amazing how LTA/LTE (at least how the Navy defines it) was never really broken down before that.
 

DanMa1156

Land of the Milk and Honey.
pilot
Contributor
#14
Do they actually teach aero now? When I went through, it was a one hour class and then you took the test on your own time when you were ready. I don't know how many times I read about induced flow trying to make sense of it until finally one morning it just clicked and I ran to the testing center while I still retained the info.
I can't say how long it's been taught, but even when I was a student, it was, and continues to be Monday-Thursday all day class, with a test on Friday.
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
#15
Is there a Garmin GTN-650 in the TH-57C now? @Jim123 ????

View attachment 18154

EDIT - apparently so! Genuinely good job CNATRA and NAVAIR...

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/local/docs/notices/1542.20180105.pdf

Buddy who just showed up from the HTs to the squadron told me they got the 650.... couldn't believe it. So.... a training plane for basically all aircraft that do not nor will they ever have IFR GPS capability, that is equipped to fly LPV approaches, yet the Herc, which would benefit greatly from this product, is stuck with 20 year old stuff that is just shoved together and works some of the time? Nice.