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How to become a Flight Surgeon?

Sam I am

Average looking, not a farmer.
pilot
Contributor
So, it would appear my oldest daughter was intrigued by the uniform when we went to her uncle's retirement in Pensacola this past spring and she's asking questions, which I think is pretty cool. She's not interested in being a pilot because that's what Dad did and whatever we do, we can't be like Dad right now. She's always been into the medical stuff and has attended a couple "Scrubs Camps" at local medical schools and college. Seems to genuinely love it.

In my 14 years of flying time, I had a variety of flight surgeon types, but I think all did Medical School first, joined the Navy, became flight surgeons? But I'm pretty sure there were some other type folk in flight surgeon community as well, including Chiropractors? Which reminds me of a total A-hole joke I would always tell around our Flight Surgeon.

Set up: What do you call the person who graduates last in their medical school class? A doctor.
Follow up: What do you call the person who graduates last in the Flight Surgeon class? A chiropractor.

I'll warn you though, telling that joke around your flight surgeon may get you a colonoscopy...even if you're like 27 years old. Don't ask me why I know that.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
A guy I grew up with went to college on an NROTC scholarship and then went on to med school. Did a tour as a flight doc after getting out of med school, did some other stuff, and is now the President's Doctor. So there are ways she can go to undergrad on an NROTC scholarship and go on to med school. I've known a few others like him and also had one flight doc who went to USNA and then went on to the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences on some sort of government scholarship.
 

Sam I am

Average looking, not a farmer.
pilot
Contributor
Okay, that's interesting. Did the Navy pay for med school too?
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Okay, that's interesting. Did the Navy pay for med school too?
I think so but don't know for sure. I believe attending the USUHS incurs an obligation but is otherwise free. Not sure how it worked out with NROTC and getting commissioned into the med corps vs URL. But people can get into USUHS without having gone to ROTC or USNA prior to. I think it's more like a service academy for the medical corps.
 

SynixMan

HKG Based Artificial Excrement Pilot
pilot
Contributor
The recruiter websites are pretty good knowledge. I kicked the tires on going back to medical school after my commitment and becoming a flight doc. Last I checked it’s a four/five year payback if they pay for your school. Billets are all over and lots of random good deals beyond the abbreviated flight school they get. The flight docs that come through primary all seem to think they figured out a pretty good drug deal to not be six figures in debt.

Also, consider the coast guard too. They’re docs are part of the Public Service Health Corps, but you get all the bennies of a commissioned coastie and less of the deployment shenanigans.
 

TimeBomb

Noise, vibration and harshness
The two oldest guys I saw get picked up were in their 50s. So, based on that limited data set, seems the door may be open. Get fitted for that white coat!
 

Pianistwithwings

Grumpy Cat
None
There are a number of pathways into Navy medicine. PM me if you want more information.
V/R
Do you have info on timelines for say a O-3 type who may or may not be taking the prerequisites to apply to USU, how far out to socialize to the boss and speak with the detailer about applying USU vs staying in aviation?
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
@TimeBomb will have the best gouge given his background. But for anyone not PMing him, the Uniformed School of Health Sciences ( in my day sometimes derisively called Useless U) is totally free. In fact, if you enter off the street (no prior service or commissioning) you attend as a DIRCOM USNR Ensign and during term breaks do ODS or some sort of other active duty. So, free school and O-1 selres pay. I don't recall if you get any other stipend or room and board.

Most impressive is the program, similar to USNA Prep School, that takes active duty enlisted with a degree, runs them through 2 years of academics for prerequisites and MCAT prep, then 2 years of med school. Never met anyone who did that. I am sure it is a small highly competitive program. But what a deal!
 

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
My relief on my last set of orders is dual mil but her husband is an EOD officer turned USUHS student at the moment.

All other prior officers I’ve seen go the HPSP route and attend a normal med school. I’ve seen a few use HSCP (more monthly $$$) if the gi bill covers costs.
 

Rugger

Super Moderatress
Super Moderator
Contributor
I'm a ROTC/USU grad, and recovering flight surgeon. About half the class at USU is "prior service" - meaning some sort of miltiary afiliation. So prior enlisted, prior officer, ROTC, and academy types. The rest of the folks go thru some sort of fork and knife school - Officer Development School/ODS or Officer Impersonation School/OIS which is 2 to 6 weeks of how to be an officer. (See OIS comment). When I went to school (dinosaurs ruled the earth, there was only night and day, yada yada yada) there were like 33% Army, 30 ish% Navy, 30ish% AF, and 10ish PHS students at the start of first year. The graduating composition changed due to attrites, service transfers, etc. People switched for a variety of reasons like they really wanted to be in the <<fill in the blank>> but ended up something else, they married someone from another service, or they did (or did not) want to go straight thru to specialty doctor training. PHS numbers vary, and I *think* the USCG has a dedicated spot now. In terms of filling, the PHS and AF spots went fastest, then Army and Navy. There's no tuition, no costs for room/board/books, and some sort of O1 ish pay. (They keep playing with that, and I don't keep track). Years at USU don't count for pay or promotion, BUT are a nice 4 years added if you stick around for retirement.

HPSP is like a ROTC scholarship with 2/3/4 years paid for and 2/3/4 year committment. HSCP is probably more like the STA21 program.

There were a handful of prior aviators and "socializing" their plans with their commands varied. The A6 was going away, so there were a couple of those in my YG (I told you - I"M OLD). One guy had been a CAG paddles and another a TopGun instructor, so theoretcally still on the golden path. A couple ROTC/Trawing folks too, and they seemed to have more time to study for MCATS and such. I believe that their prior service time was credited toward rank and pay at half time served. For those who went back to aviation/flight surgery, I think their flight pay restarted where they left.

The service commitment does not include training and is 7 years. My buddy was a USNA grad and she owed 12 years exclusive of training. (5/USNA + 7/USU) I was a ROTC grad and owed 11 (4 + 7). We both were flight docs after our intern year and did doctor training afterward (both residency and fellowship, which I suppose is like going thru the FRS then TPS or TopGun). Once we each paid off our training debt, we were senior-ish O5s but OWED NO EDUCATIONAL DEBT. (Unless you're independently wealthy this is not inconsequential. The average medical student today will gradaute with $250k in school debt AND there are more US med students graduating from school than training spots). We've both since retired and are living relatively normal lives, doctor wise - found reasonably well paying jobs in our specialties in locations where we wanted to live, with employers that don't treat us poorly, or make me wear brown polyester or the current digital Garanimal suit.

The Enlisted to Medical Degree Preparatory Program (EMDP2) is fantastic - at least three of the Sailors or Marines I've worked with matriculated. It's a post-baccalaureate program / medical masters degree for enlisted folks that helps them with the pre-med classes/pre-clinical subjects , and take the MCAT. Like the USNA Foundation scholarships, it makes these folks competitive for any med school program, but most of them end up going to USU.

I spent a lot time in the fleet before doing my specialty training, which is a little unusual, but I"m glad I did so. I needed a break from academics and being a flight doc was really fun. Unlike most doctors, I worked closely with my patients every day and, on deployment, lived with them, which probably did wonders for my personality skills :)

Competition for flight surgery selection is like any other Navy job - depends on supply and demand. I had a friend who went to a civ medical school on an HPSP scholarship and went straight thru for orthopedic surgery. He did his first doctor job near some air station and figured out how much fun the flight docs were having. When his obligation was over, he told the Navy that he would stay for at least another tour IF he was allowed to go Pensacola and go thru flight surgery school, followed by some NAMI boondoggle. I had another friend who desparately wanted to be a flight doc but didn't meet the physical qualifications and ended up doing something on a ship. YMMV
 

AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
Are any of those pathways available to an “almost” 55 year old Navy veteran who was honorably discharged as an O-3?

Dr. Mad Dog [or Mad Dog, M.D.] sounds pretty freaking cool. :cool:
The two oldest guys I saw get picked up were in their 50s. So, based on that limited data set, seems the door may be open. Get fitted for that white coat!

While I was going through OCS, there were a number of dudes who came through ODS as docs who had to have easily been in their late 40s or early 50s. They all had advanced specialties and commissioned as O5s and even an O6. The O6 was a cardio-neurosurgeon and decided one day that he wanted to serve his country.
 

Pianistwithwings

Grumpy Cat
None
I'm a ROTC/USU grad, and recovering flight surgeon. About half the class at USU is "prior service" - meaning some sort of miltiary afiliation. So prior enlisted, prior officer, ROTC, and academy types. The rest of the folks go thru some sort of fork and knife school - Officer Development School/ODS or Officer Impersonation School/OIS which is 2 to 6 weeks of how to be an officer. (See OIS comment). When I went to school (dinosaurs ruled the earth, there was only night and day, yada yada yada) there were like 33% Army, 30 ish% Navy, 30ish% AF, and 10ish PHS students at the start of first year. The graduating composition changed due to attrites, service transfers, etc. People switched for a variety of reasons like they really wanted to be in the <<fill in the blank>> but ended up something else, they married someone from another service, or they did (or did not) want to go straight thru to specialty doctor training. PHS numbers vary, and I *think* the USCG has a dedicated spot now. In terms of filling, the PHS and AF spots went fastest, then Army and Navy. There's no tuition, no costs for room/board/books, and some sort of O1 ish pay. (They keep playing with that, and I don't keep track). Years at USU don't count for pay or promotion, BUT are a nice 4 years added if you stick around for retirement.

HPSP is like a ROTC scholarship with 2/3/4 years paid for and 2/3/4 year committment. HSCP is probably more like the STA21 program.

There were a handful of prior aviators and "socializing" their plans with their commands varied. The A6 was going away, so there were a couple of those in my YG (I told you - I"M OLD). One guy had been a CAG paddles and another a TopGun instructor, so theoretcally still on the golden path. A couple ROTC/Trawing folks too, and they seemed to have more time to study for MCATS and such. I believe that their prior service time was credited toward rank and pay at half time served. For those who went back to aviation/flight surgery, I think their flight pay restarted where they left.

The service commitment does not include training and is 7 years. My buddy was a USNA grad and she owed 12 years exclusive of training. (5/USNA + 7/USU) I was a ROTC grad and owed 11 (4 + 7). We both were flight docs after our intern year and did doctor training afterward (both residency and fellowship, which I suppose is like going thru the FRS then TPS or TopGun). Once we each paid off our training debt, we were senior-ish O5s but OWED NO EDUCATIONAL DEBT. (Unless you're independently wealthy this is not inconsequential. The average medical student today will gradaute with $250k in school debt AND there are more US med students graduating from school than training spots). We've both since retired and are living relatively normal lives, doctor wise - found reasonably well paying jobs in our specialties in locations where we wanted to live, with employers that don't treat us poorly, or make me wear brown polyester or the current digital Garanimal suit.

The Enlisted to Medical Degree Preparatory Program (EMDP2) is fantastic - at least three of the Sailors or Marines I've worked with matriculated. It's a post-baccalaureate program / medical masters degree for enlisted folks that helps them with the pre-med classes/pre-clinical subjects , and take the MCAT. Like the USNA Foundation scholarships, it makes these folks competitive for any med school program, but most of them end up going to USU.

I spent a lot time in the fleet before doing my specialty training, which is a little unusual, but I"m glad I did so. I needed a break from academics and being a flight doc was really fun. Unlike most doctors, I worked closely with my patients every day and, on deployment, lived with them, which probably did wonders for my personality skills :)

Competition for flight surgery selection is like any other Navy job - depends on supply and demand. I had a friend who went to a civ medical school on an HPSP scholarship and went straight thru for orthopedic surgery. He did his first doctor job near some air station and figured out how much fun the flight docs were having. When his obligation was over, he told the Navy that he would stay for at least another tour IF he was allowed to go Pensacola and go thru flight surgery school, followed by some NAMI boondoggle. I had another friend who desparately wanted to be a flight doc but didn't meet the physical qualifications and ended up doing something on a ship. YMMV
@Rugger, I greatly appreciate the info, and it more than answers all of my questions I didn’t know to ask.
 
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