How Low can He Go??

[CapSky]

To those who think this is "small potatoes" or no big deal. First of all, we don't bow. See picture of Dick Cheney greeting the Emperor with a handshake while standing upright. This is the son of Hirohito, who authorized the attack on Pearl Harbor. Mr. Obama should be more interested in respecting the WWII Veterans than an Emperor, but of course he is not. In fact, if WH talking heads are to be believed, it appears that Mr. Obama's original plans would have put him out of the country on Veteran's Day. So it really is a rather large deal to many that this man ALWAYS shows more respect to others than he does his own countrymen. He may have been born here but he is not really an American.

 

[zipmartin]

What really bothers me is the fact that people are posting on this site, wondering what is wrong with the President bowing to other heads of state or foreign dignitaries. When us old timers were growing up, we learned in elementary school that our President bowed to NO one, not as a sign of disrespect, but that we are below NO one. Bowing is a sign of subserviency, and we are subservient to NO country or organization. Just like the Stars and Stripes is NEVER dipped to another flag. What has become of the educational system here.....political correctness has run amuck. As A4s said, "The nightmare continues ..."

 

[CalamityJean]

When us old timers were growing up, we learned in elementary school that our President bowed to NO one, not as a sign of disrespect, but that we are below NO one. Bowing is a sign of subserviency, and we are subservient to NO country or organization.

Zip, I'm not an old timer but I was taught this too. He is not the King of the US, he is our elected representative. He'd do well to convey the spirit of his people rather than set a false pretense to the leaders and peoples of another nation.

 

[desertoasis]

He is not the King of the US.

You're right, but he's about as close to a king as we'll ever get. The head of state is supposed to extend diplomatic courtesies, be cognizant of the cultural norms and social mores of other nations and abide by them without violating his own nation's mores, and convey the general goodwill of his nation. In a combined head position like the US Presidency, it becomes difficult to separate the dual role as head of government AND head of state, making the 'correct' action in any situation much harder to define. While I think it was incorrect from a diplomatic standpoint for him to bow as low as he did, I think that a smaller one (less AOB, if you will) would have been merited as a sign of respect from one head of state to another, not demonstrating subservience or deferral as is being suggested. I don't think the President was demonstrating anything but respect for the Emperor, as he should as head of state.

However, had he been acting in his role as head of government, I believe the President should not have bowed, since he is one government figure meeting another government figure. However, Akihito is NOT Japan's head of government, Hatoyama Yukio is. Were Obama meeting Hatoyama, I would be much more offended, because THAT would demonstrate political deference and subservience, whereas bowing to a head of state (by definition a cultural and diplomatic representative) is at its core a respectful show of understanding of the cultural differences. Since Obama was acting as head of state on this occasion, meeting another head of state, in my opinion the bow was probably warranted, though not to the degree (both figuratively and literally) to which it was performed. In my eyes, right intentions, wrong execution...right in line with everything else he's done since he took office. (See? You CAN criticize the President and still be respectful IAW Article 88! It's easy! )

This hypernationalistic 'The US bows to no one' stuff comes off as arrogant to me, and in my mind continues to foster the notion that Americans do not care about other nations' social and cultural gestures. I, for one, would like to see that opinion changed.

And for the record, he's not the first president to do so.

 

[Mos]

You Øtard apologists do NOT understand that there is, and has been for decades, a presidential protocol (there is even an office in the White House for the current doofus and the First Linebacker to use, since it's obvious they don't and haven't). The President NEVER bows to a foreign ruler like this - NEVER. It is NOT being sophisticated to deviate from the protocol - it is called being ignorant and it appalls and embarrasses the foreign dignitaries who are at a loss on how to respond.

Could you cite an official reference that states it is protocol, other than that the previous VP didn't do it? I'm not an expert on White House protocol, but there's also a long precedent of diplomatic officials, the President included, showing respect and appreciation for other cultures when they visit foreign lands or religious leaders. And there's also some photographic evidence of past presidents breaking what you believe is WH protocol (see below) or supposedly pandering to another culture, including bowing, holding hands and kissing cheeks in Arab custom.

It's not about being sophisticated, it's about showing respect for someone when you're visiting their home, even when you're a head of state. That's not a new, post-modern trend, that's a very old tradition. BUT there is a balance that must be struck. The president is still an American and should convey that he is proud to represent us overseas.

 

[Pepe]

I'm pretty sure that a bow in Japan is just like our handshake. He bowed too low, no biggy in my eyes. I'm just getting tired of seeing all these little cultural faux pas. Just makes the POTUS look sloppy.

 

[CalamityJean]

BUT there is a balance that must be struck. The president is still an American and should convey that he is proud to represent us overseas.

Well said. Those photos are good finds to make your point. However, the photo everyone is pissed off about isn't a slight tilt foward, its a full blown bend. Hopefully next time he will get it right.

 

[Junkball]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/obama-emperor-akihito-japan.html

He is clearly admiring the floor.

"My, that is fine stonework you have, Emperor Akihito!"

 

[RBrowne]

Could you cite an official reference that states it is protocol, other than that the previous VP didn't do it? I'm not an expert on White House protocol, but there's also a long precedent of diplomatic officials, the President included, showing respect and appreciation for other cultures when they visit foreign lands or religious leaders. And there's also some photographic evidence of past presidents breaking what you believe is WH protocol (see below) or supposedly pandering to another culture, including bowing, holding hands and kissing cheeks in Arab custom.

It's not about being sophisticated, it's about showing respect for someone when you're visiting their home, even when you're a head of state. That's not a new, post-modern trend, that's a very old tradition. BUT there is a balance that must be struck. The president is still an American and should convey that he is proud to represent us overseas.

WHITE HOUSE protocol !! It's not about WHITE HOUSE protocol...It's about AMERICAN protocol. On official business the president does not represent the WHITE HOUSE.......he represents AMERICA. And in that capacity the majority of AMERICANS do not wish their elected representative to the world to bow to any head of state. As for respect, John Wayne knew how to show it....a one finger touch to the brim of his hat was sufficient. Anything beyond that is PC...and PC is killing America (literally)...ref Ft. Hood. As Earl Pitts would say "Wake up Uhmurica".

 

[AJTranny]

WHITE HOUSE protocol !! It's not about WHITE HOUSE protocol...It's about AMERICAN protocol. On official business the president does not represent the WHITE HOUSE.......he represents AMERICA. And in that capacity the majority of AMERICANS do not wish their elected representative to the world to bow to any head of state. As for respect, John Wayne knew how to show it....a one finger touch to the brim of his hat was sufficient. Anything beyond that is PC...and PC is killing America (literally)...ref Ft. Hood. As Earl Pitts would say "Wake up Uhmurica".

How do you think the Duke woulda liked the American representative holding hands with a Saudi Prince on Texas soil? I agree though, a tip of the hat or shake of the hand is all we need to give these people.

 

[OldNavy]

So how long before we start dipping the colors?

 

[CAMike]

Eye contact, bow down, save face and diplomatic protocol. Makes sense. Seems complicated, in fact more so by how much debt we owe some of these countries.

I say we seek guidance from a man with just this level of "experience".

Mr. Former President- What say you?

 

[Spekkio]

Hypothetical example:

So there you are as POTUS, and you are meeting with the Emperor of Japan in Tokyo to strike a mutually beneficial trade deal, but it will benefit the US more than Japan.

You are told that upon greeting him, if you refuse to bow and show respect for Japanese customs then the Emperor will consider you rude and refuse to do business with your country for the rest of your administration.

So you can swallow your pride and adhere to Japanese customs for a day to get what you want for the country, or you could take the "I bow to no one" stance and walk away with nothing.

This is the way politics works. Sometimes you have to give a little to get a lot more. The hard-charging, "we're too proud to follow your customs" diplomacy would get us nowhere.

 

[Fog]

Hypothetical example:


You are told that upon greeting him, if you refuse to bow and show respect for Japanese customs then the Emperor will consider you rude and refuse to do business with your country for the rest of your administration.

Excuse me? Nobody told our glorious leader that. He can greet the emperor of Japan sincerely & respectfully without bowing as he did. Don't put words into this debate that you don't know are there.

 

[scoolbubba]

So how long before we start dipping the colors?

No shit. My thoughts exactly. Do we dip them only to nations we owe money to?