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How about that North Korea?

armada1651

Hey intern, get me a Campari!
pilot
Hey, we're at least a step or two further from war, and that was not a given going into this thing. So I'll give the administration credit for that, and for being willing to try diplomacy. Those are good things, no question.

That said, I don't see much concrete progress coming out of this yet, and there's certainly no evidence to my knowledge that this is any better than the JCPOA as a means for nonproliferation or denuclearization. And I have a hard time giving the administration much credit for "bringing the North Koreans to the table." They came to the table when they had a good hand to play there - nukes. Now they've gained warmer relations with China and South Korea, and driven a wedge between the US and the South. And we've gotten a photo op and a madman's word that things are going to change for the better. Again, this is vastly better than war, and I'll give Trump some credit for that. I also don't think he deserves any blame for our being in this difficult position. But let's be realistic about what's been achieved on our end. At this point, it's just not that much.
 

DanMa1156

Land of the Milk and Honey.
pilot
Contributor
Hey, we're at least a step or two further from war, and that was not a given going into this thing. So I'll give the administration credit for that, and for being willing to try diplomacy. Those are good things, no question.

That said, I don't see much concrete progress coming out of this yet, and there's certainly no evidence to my knowledge that this is any better than the JCPOA as a means for nonproliferation or denuclearization. And I have a hard time giving the administration much credit for "bringing the North Koreans to the table." They came to the table when they had a good hand to play there - nukes. Now they've gained warmer relations with China and South Korea, and driven a wedge between the US and the South. And we've gotten a photo op and a madman's word that things are going to change for the better. Again, this is vastly better than war, and I'll give Trump some credit for that. I also don't think he deserves any blame for our being in this difficult position. But let's be realistic about what's been achieved on our end. At this point, it's just not that much.
Agree with most of what you're saying save for the bold parts. It bothers me to see commentators and his talking heads say "he brought us off the brink of war!" when his threats, use of twitter, insults, and lack of typical diplomacy was what brought us to the edge (?) of war in the first place. I don't recall any credible threats from NK during the previous three administrations, but maybe I'm mistaken, forgive me and correct me if I am.
 

armada1651

Hey intern, get me a Campari!
pilot
Agree with most of what you're saying save for the bold parts. It bothers me to see commentators and his talking heads say "he brought us off the brink of war!" when his threats, use of twitter, insults, and lack of typical diplomacy was what brought us to the edge (?) of war in the first place. I don't recall any credible threats from NK during the previous three administrations, but maybe I'm mistaken, forgive me and correct me if I am.
I agree that the rhetoric wasn't helpful at all. Trump's supporters will say that was his "mad man theory" of foreign policy and that it brought Kim to the table. I'd argue that it was more likely his junior-high level of emotional maturity, but honestly it's probably impossible to prove either way. I think what really brought Kim to the table was having achieved and demonstrated a plausible nuclear threat - like I said, he finally had a good enough hand to play. If someone's holding a royal flush, it's a stretch to credit their opponent's bluffing ability for keeping them from folding. But I would also say that the nuclear weapons development timeline essentially has an automatic "brink of war" built into it, regardless of the rhetoric on either side. It's simply the nature of the problem - the strength of the argument to use pre-emptive force grows as your adversary comes closer to possessing a realistic nuclear threat, and it probably peaks somewhere in the gray area we're currently living in, wherein they definitely have a precursor to a gamechanging capability but it's hard to determine exactly when the game changes. So the relative lack of credible North Korean threats over the past couple decades has much more to do with their lack of ability than it does with any leader's lack of self-control or decorum. Or 4th grade reading level.
 

Ken_gone_flying

"I live vicariously through myself."
pilot
Contributor
Remember, the stated USG policy is denuclearization - the complete dismantling of the DPRK's nuclear program and infrastructure. When that happens, I'll be the first in line to sing Trump's praises. Until it does, my statement stands.
No, your statement was mocking people that thought the summit was even going to take place. That's why you made that statement the day day Trump called it off when Kim Jong Un started mouthing off. It took place. Now you're just trying to double down to try to save face. Pretty sure not one person in here thought this summit was going to result in the complete denuclearization of NK. We recognized that bringing a rogue leader like this to the table gave us more options than pretty much the only option left, the military option.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I’ll admit to being surprised that this whole thing has gotten this far, but my emphasis was on deal making, and a deal to denuclearize is not something that has been accomplished. You’re free to read that any way you please, Ken.
 

picklesuit

Living the GeoBachelor dream...
pilot
Contributor
The CNN partisan bashing continues. They are breathlessly trying to denounce President Trump for returning the salute of a NK General who whipped up the ole right hand “how do you do” when offered a handshake.

I see nothing wrong with returning a salute, even from a foreign military, as long as he didn’t offer first.

Honestly, after trying to get through the turnstiles, parking lot, and hangar deck without throwing a shoulder out on any given day on the boat, I’d have a hard time NOT saluting back if someone ninja’d me with one...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/14/politics/donald-trump-salute-north-korea/index.html

Thoughts?
 

picklesuit

Living the GeoBachelor dream...
pilot
Contributor
Well, RD, seeing as a good chunk of the voting public is influenced by their consumption of MSM on a daily basis, I’d say we should all give a shit about shoddy journalism and hack reporters.

When they tap a retired Admiral to add legitimacy to their story (because some of these guys will do anything to make a buck) there will be those out there that believe the line they are pushing.

Said (idiot) voters count just as much as the ones who are as well educated as you.
Pickle
 
Well, RD, seeing as a good chunk of the voting public is influenced by their consumption of MSM on a daily basis, I’d say we should all give a shit about shoddy journalism and hack reporters.

When they tap a retired Admiral to add legitimacy to their story (because some of these guys will do anything to make a buck) there will be those out there that believe the line they are pushing.

Said (idiot) voters count just as much as the ones who are as well educated as you.
Pickle
Weird that I never saw you get harried over MSM going to high warble about bowing or saluting.

I don't believe you actually care about how"voting public is influenced by their consumption of MSM on a daily basis" except for when "your guy" is the one being "mistreated."

Probably because you treat and think of politics as some kind of sport and it's your team the referees are being mean to now.

And you can't throw j rag in a major network studio without it sticking to some corrupt POS retired GOFO. His opinion is meaningless.

This literally doesn't matter and no one cares, is what I'm trying to say, buddy.
 
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Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Not that big a deal, at most it shows a lack of familiarity with customs of saluting or protocol preparedness. Of course a lot of things aren't big deals like; mispronouncing ‘corpsman’ or Marine Corps, saluting with a coffee cup in your hand, whether or not someone is wearing an American flag lapel pin, moving around busts of Churchill or having a Marine hold an umbrella for you....but hey, as long as it is the other guy.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
That was a good read, you really got wrapped around the axle there, Flasherino...
I get emotional when we talk about weighty issues like what the President gifted the Queen. But you know it was the other guy and not this guy, thus critically important whereas with this guy...not so much.