Hobbies

[speedroller]

What is allowed and what is not allowed while completing the pilot training and further on? Are students (with PPL) allowed to rent and fly aircraft on their spare time?

I've also skydived before, can that still be done?

Thanks!

 

[Renegade One]

Just don't do anything high-risk that may lead to an injury and med down. I would personally recommend against the sky diving until later, but that's just me.

 

[Uncle Fester]

What R1 said.

Regarding private flying, if you want to spend the money at the flying club, sure, knock yourself out. Once you're actually in the program, you are unlikely to have much free time on your hands, but if you're stashed for a while, no reason you can't.

As for your Xtreme Sports, I was the NASC Safety-O during my instructor tour. Say you're skydiving and shatter your knee, so you're injured 'not in the line of duty', and it's bad enough to put you on LIMPDU indefinitely. Now you're in the fantastic world of Med Hold, which operates outside normal space-time. You're out of training and manning a desk or fetching coffee for somebody, and that's after you're healed up. Then you're waiting for some random council of quacks to pronounce you ready to rejoin the program. This process can and has taken a year or more to play out. Sometimes a lot more.

At some point the Skipper/CDRE/CNATRA is going to start considering whether it's worth keeping you in the program. That's not punishment; there are only so many flight school billets to go around, and they have a production target to meet. They have to assess whether it's worth keeping a spot that could be used by someone healthy, when they haven't spent much money on you yet in training and you may not ever be a full-up round again. That you got hurt in a recreational off-duty mishap definitely won't help. And if you're out of the program and nobody else needs an unqualified gimpy ensign, then the Navy is going to start considering whether it's worth keeping you in at all, or just sending you home. I have seen this happen.

Caveat, because apparently a lot of studs misunderstood my speech about this: you will not automatically be attrited for getting sick, or for minor injuries. If you get hurt or ill, fess up and go see the Doc. "Toughing it out" is dangerous and fucking stupid, and will not impress anyone. I'm talking about serious injuries, occurring during off-duty shenanigans and/or monkeyshines.

Okay, climbing down now.

 

[speedroller]

Thank you for the input. I didn't know if there might be a rule that does not allow any students to engage in dangerous activities. Obviously, injury is a huge risk. I am contemplating on selling my motorcycle for that very reason. I've fought this much to get here, hate to ruin all of it now.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Say you're skydiving and shatter your knee, so you're injured 'not in the line of duty', and it's bad enough to put you on LIMPDU indefinitely.

Wouldn't a "not in the line of duty" determination mean that he did something against the rules. For example, a dude wrecks a motorcycle but hasn't done any of the basic rider courses, etc, then that can be considered not in the line of duty.

In lieu of there being an official order saying "no skydiving", wouldn't a skydiving accident be in the line of duty, the same as if I fall down the stairs and break my kneecap?

 

[ea6bflyr]

Wouldn't a "not in the line of duty" determination mean that he did something against the rules. For example, a dude wrecks a motorcycle but hasn't done any of the basic rider courses, etc, then that can be considered not in the line of duty.

In lieu of there being an official order saying "no skydiving", wouldn't a skydiving accident be in the line of duty, the same as if I fall down the stairs and break my kneecap?

IIRC, all students are to complete a specific Risk Assessment Form through the safety officer prior to engaging in high-risk activities while in flight school (SCUBA, Motorcycle, skydiving, etc).

On another note, I saw a Marine attrite from flight school due to his leg injury from a car accident. He would not meet his 18 month winging window.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Wouldn't a "not in the line of duty" determination mean that he did something against the rules. For example, a dude wrecks a motorcycle but hasn't done any of the basic rider courses, etc, then that can be considered not in the line of duty.

In lieu of there being an official order saying "no skydiving", wouldn't a skydiving accident be in the line of duty, the same as if I fall down the stairs and break my kneecap?

IIRC, all students are to complete a specific Risk Assessment Form through the safety officer prior to engaging in high-risk activities while in flight school (SCUBA, Motorcycle, skydiving, etc)...

Sorry, I should've been more careful with my phrasing.

Yes, a JAGMAN 'not in the line of duty' determination is much more serious than what I'm talking about. I was referring to being injured in off-duty mishaps, as opposed to going LIMPDU due to injuries while flying (blow your sinuses due to congestion, etc).

That being said, ea6b was correct and studs are supposed to run a 'danger chit' before doing high risk activities, mostly so the Safety-O or STUCON can talk them out of it and give them that same speech I made above. Taking sensible precautions but shit still happens, as opposed to "hold my beer, watch this" mishaps, could wind up factoring into a skipper's thinking.

 

[zippy]

Thank you for the input. I didn't know if there might be a rule that does not allow any students to engage in dangerous activities. Obviously, injury is a huge risk. I am contemplating on selling my motorcycle for that very reason. I've fought this much to get here, hate to ruin all of it now.

While I'm not against motorcycles, I've seen a few cases as an IP of students getting involved in some very serious accidents on them while I was an IP. One died, one lost organs and never flew again and one was allowed to continue the program after being med down for just shy of a year.

You may not have to sell your Bike but long term storage might be an option to look at if you're worried about the risk.

 

[Randy Daytona]

While I'm not against motorcycles, I've seen a few cases as an IP of students getting involved in some very serious accidents on them while I was an IP. One died, one lost organs and never flew again and one was allowed to continue the program after being med down for just shy of a year.

You may not have to sell your Bike but long term storage might be an option to look at if you're worried about the risk.

Agree. Put the bike away until you are winged. As for skydiving, I am pretty sure that is not allowed as a flight student - even if it wasn't, you are playing Russian Roulette with you medical - and your career.

 

[insanebikerboy]

While I'm not against motorcycles, I've seen a few cases as an IP of students getting involved in some very serious accidents on them while I was an IP. One died, one lost organs and never flew again and one was allowed to continue the program after being med down for just shy of a year.

You may not have to sell your Bike but long term storage might be an option to look at if you're worried about the risk.

I don't buy this argument. The exact same thing could happen to you after you get winged and the end result is the same.

 

[Flash]

I don't buy this argument. The exact same thing could happen to you after you get winged and the end result is the same.

Not quite, having wings makes the Navy work and think a little harder about kicking people to the curb or to another job than if one was a SNA/SNFO. I saw that several times and had a brush myself medical-wise, I was told point-blank that since I had just gotten my wings they were going to work that much harder to make sure I was up and ready.

 

[zippy]

I don't buy this argument. The exact same thing could happen to you after you get winged and the end result is the same.

If you're med down for a certain period of time you get attrited in flight school (I think it's 12 months cumulative- and the second dudes injuries prevented him from making the window). Once you have wings the rules change.

Guys and girls know the risks associated with riding their bikes. Risk mitigation is part of adulthood. Selling your bike during flight school isn't the only way to skin the cat.

 

[insanebikerboy]

If you're med down for a certain period of time you get attrited in flight school (I think it's 12 months cumulative- and the second dudes injuries prevented him from making the window). Once you have wings the rules change.

Guys and girls know the risks associated with riding their bikes. Risk mitigation is part of adulthood. Selling your bike during flight school isn't the only way to skin the cat.

I get that rules are different for winged and non-winged.

That said, a dude dies, a dude loses organs and can't fly, and a dude is down for a year. Each one of those could just as easily happen after winging as prior to, and the end result is the same for all three.

My point, saying you're not going to ride a motorcycle or recommending not riding because of the extremely small potential for getting hurt...I suppose all studs should live on base and walk to the squadron?

 

[zippy]

My point, saying you're not going to ride a motorcycle or recommending not riding because of the extremely small potential for getting hurt...I suppose all studs should live on base and walk to the squadron?

No, some studs want do something besides be a helo pilot...

CNATRA and the training commands intentionally induce paranoia about doing outside activities because loss of work/ fly days makes them look even worse production wise and inflates the cost of student training, and no one really wants to do all the paperwork involved for the HRAs so it's easier for the staffs to steer students away from them.

The dude who killed himself on the bike was being an idiot and that incident was entirely preventable. The same argument has been made for the dude who made the home made parasailing rig that lost lift and decided to ride it in a channel where the water was shallow outside of the dredged area.

The military really doesn't care about your personal freedoms, which is why they make it such a pain in the ass to ride motorcycles, drive boats, jump out of airplanes, fly airplanes, shoot guns, scuba dive, travel more than X miles in a liberty radius etc. all of those things can and are done on a regular basis by many people who decide to just do it and ignore the High Risk Acitivty shaming paperwork or they go through the process of filling it out.

For some dudes riding their bike or doing things they like isn't worth the risk. Others don't care and are going to live their life the way they want to regardless. Neither choice is necessarily wrong, but some options come with more inconvenience than others if one is going to follow the protocols set in place to try to stop the stupidity of the lowest common denominator.

 

[Uncle Fester]

...I suppose all studs should live on base and walk to the squadron?

No, some studs want do something besides be a helo pilot...