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Helicopter License as civilian

JSF_Dreamer

Busted Head
Well most of you know my story... if not go to DOC's corner... it'll be the thread with all the tears.


I'm still interested in aviation and I had always thought that I would do helicopters if I went commercial. Currently going through a bit of sticker-shock on the cost for the licensing, but I didn't expect it to be cheap.

Do any of you know or have experience with helicopteracademy.com? They're pretty upfront about the cost: $65k or so, but I'm just not sure about it. Do any of you have any recommendations on schools? I was just looking at them since I live in Pensacola and they are the only ones here and in Mobile, AL.

Thanks, guys/gals.
 

Moc1Sig

Active Member
pilot
Contributor
I have a college friend that is in a helo academy in Gaitlinburg, TN. I think it cost around 65K and got you a CFII and a job instructing with them, and an "IN" with some sightseeing tour comapnies later on... He seems syked about it and loves what he is doing, think he just finished his private. let me know if you have more specific Q's about his program to compare or whatever you see fit and I can give him a call to PM you more info.
 

JSF_Dreamer

Busted Head
That seems on par with this company. At 300 hours they "hire" you as an intern, but it's not a paid position; simply allows you to only pay 200 per hour for the helicopters for the next 100 hours. During the internship you take pictures of boats for their contract with boatpix.com.

I appreciate the info, Moc. The price seems insane to me, but I guess it's good too since not everyone is flooding the market with helicopter licenses.
 

helolumpy

Apprentice School Principal
pilot
Contributor
but it's not a paid position; simply allows you to only pay 200 per hour for the helicopters for the next 100 hours.

I talked to a local helo operator here in RI about getting checked out and renting. It was going to run about $500/hour to rent once qual'd.
That $200/hour figure is still steep but a more attractive way to build hours vice $500/hour.

Good luck
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
These type of places have a history of closing their doors without notice and keeping all their student's money when they file for bankruptcy. Never give them a shit-ton of cash up front but instead pay them slowly in little chunks. If they won't accept this, move on to the next place.

Also, if you go the loan route, make sure that you have to approve every payment and that they can not just access the loan as they please.

For the last one I heard about f'ing their students, google Silve State Helicopters.
 

JSF_Dreamer

Busted Head
Thanks for the heads up, HAL. I will be sure not to give them all the money up front.

The only financial aid I've found (since there is none through the school) is the Sallie Mae Career Training loan. I think I will be able to take up to 50k from them. That would be the majority of the licensing costs. Any other options out there for me? Also, does anyone know of any schools that would allow me to get regular financial aid? Moc, where does your friend attend class?

Helo, yeah, $200 looks a lot better than $500. What do you do in RI? I'm currently the proud person in charge of the first lieutenant's office over in King Hall... yayyyy.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Talk with Masterbates, as he's had some civilian helo experience. Be advised, you're probably not going to make any money doing it - particularly for the first few years. Hope you're not planning on supporting a family or living above the poverty line. :(

Brett
 

Moc1Sig

Active Member
pilot
Contributor
ill check, I know he quit college to do it... so im not sure if money is an issue for him, always had money for drinking... but come to think of it, i would still find money for that living on the poverty line.
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Talk with Masterbates, as he's had some civilian helo experience. Be advised, you're probably not going to make any money doing it - particularly for the first few years. Hope you're not planning on supporting a family or living above the poverty line. :(

Brett

Along with that, google around AW... you'll see that typical civvy helo gigs start with a higher salary than regional airlines, but top off quickly, so keep that in mind. I'd personally stick with it as a hobby, but probably not count on it as a family-supporting salary, but that's just ME. Good luck! Helos are a blast!
 

Flying Toaster

Well-Known Member
None
Slight hijack here, but at some point in the near future I've been looking to get a few rotary hours. Anyone have suggestions/opinions on the 300CB/i vs. the R22? I have two local schools, each of which have similar pricing (expensive) so that's not a factor. I've been leaning towards the 300 simply because I'm not a fan of the T-bar.
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
Robbie time may be more valuable as don insurance has min hours for them due to funky governor setup.

Other than that, 300.

What has been said about pay being better than regional airlines but topping out quick is true.


Sent via my HTC EVO 4G
 

FlyinRock

Registered User
I've been in the helicopter world since 1966 and have watched it change over the years. I last flew them as a job about 5 years ago when I finished my crop dusting career after 40 years of it. Never did any offshore work or EMS which is where most pilots end up these days. The hook is getting to that first thousand hours that most require for employment. Working as a flight instructor is a sure way to learn to hate Top Ramen because it will be about the only thing you can afford to buy for food. Will temper that by saying I have been an instructor since the mid 60's, and rotor CFII since the mid 70's. I never made much money at it and have over 6000 hours dual given as a CFI. Its a really tough field to make it in. I know of a few different guys who bought a used R-22 to do their training in and then sold the helicopters and nearly broke even. Certainly a lot cheaper than paying the bills for some flight school by renting from them. Certainly there are exceptions to the rule, but not very many. Of all the civilian flying I've done, crop dusting or ag work paid the best. That too is a very hard field to break into and takes some special aptitudes and determination before you can make any money at it. But, once you get a couple of seasons under your belt, it is not at all uncommon to make $50K-75K in just 3-4 months in a good area. For those who get on with a year around operator like in CA can make $100K+ easy and a lot of time off, but when you are busy in the season you'll fly your ass off. 300-500 hours are the norm for the shorter seasons.
Wish I could give you a more glowing picture but I think far too many schools are doing an inflated job of that just to generate business. Be more than happy to discuss it more if you want to do any PM's. As you might notice, I tend to be blunt about it but that is a lot of money for training that you may never get to use once you have your license.
Semper Fi
Rocky
 

Stearmann4

I'm here for the Jeeehawd!
None
JSF,

I've done a fair amount of consulting and spread sheets for guys wanting to fly civilian helicopters, and believe it or not, depending on who you train with, it can actually be cheaper to get your SE F/W ratings through CFI and just go back and make all your helicopter training "add-ons". Plus being dual-rated may benefit you sometime in the future. Outside of big cities, a C-172 rents for around $125-$150/hr wet, whereas I've seen R-22s going for $275+ here on the west coast. Even if it still takes you 65-70K once you've finished the add-ons, you still have double the ratings for the money. Although, helo pure training will get you more R/W time in your logbook, but that extra 50-60 hrs of R-22 time may not do as much for as you the rating will.

Also, as was said before, DO NOT give money up front for anything but a 10-20hr block of time. The Silver State debacle a few years ago left hundreds of students with upwards of 75-80K of debt when they closed their doors. All the reputable companies are now having to bear the blow back from Silver State and know better than to ask for all the money up front. Do some archival searching on www.justhelicopters.com and/or www.verticalreference.com for the complete Silver State story. Those sites are pretty good for getting the current pulse of the helicopter industry as it applies to new pilots.

I did my ATP in an R-44 and I personally don't care for the Robinsons, which after flying everything from MH-47s on down rendered me incapable of keeping it within the confines of a soccer field for the first 30 minutes. However, they are undeniably the C-172s of the helicopter training industry, and you're going to have to get trained in them at some point to satisfy SFAR 73 which pertains specifically to Robinsons. Most, if not all entry level CFI jobs are in R-22s. I like the Schweizers just because they're more conventional.

As far as jobs, I'll refer once again to Silver State helicopters. They truly did a disservice to the industry because when they abruptly closed their doors, they also put hundreds of low time Robinson CFIs out on the streets. Hence, they're pretty easy to find as all are still chasing the helicopter dream, have thousands in student loans due, and will usually work for cheap. Also, to a lesser extent than with the post-Vietnam era, the market is also currently being infused with fairly high time military helo pilots with lots of turbine and mountain time. The military equivelency which allowed all military IPs to obtain CFI/IIs made the field even more competitive.

I know the company I work for gets a dozen applications weekly from multi-thousand hr Robby pilots, and at least a couple cold call walk-ins from Army pilots from the base up the road (don't do this, is pisses off the Chief Pilot) It varies from job to job, but the mean average to be qualified for just about any turbine position that you can live off of is 2,500-3,000 TT with at least 1,500 turbine helo PIC. It's all driven by insurance requirements. Don't mean to paint a bleak picture, but knowleadge is power!

MR-
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
JSF,

I've done a fair amount of consulting and spread sheets for guys wanting to fly civilian helicopters, and believe it or not, depending on who you train with, it can actually be cheaper to get your SE F/W ratings through CFI and just go back and make all your helicopter training "add-ons". Plus being dual-rated may benefit you sometime in the future. Outside of big cities, a C-172 rents for around $125-$150/hr wet, whereas I've seen R-22s going for $275+ here on the west coast. Even if it still takes you 65-70K once you've finished the add-ons, you still have double the ratings for the money. Although, helo pure training will get you more R/W time in your logbook, but that extra 50-60 hrs of R-22 time may not do as much for as you the rating will.

Also, as was said before, DO NOT give money up front for anything but a 10-20hr block of time. The Silver State debacle a few years ago left hundreds of students with upwards of 75-80K of debt when they closed their doors. All the reputable companies are now having to bear the blow back from Silver State and know better than to ask for all the money up front. Do some archival searching on www.justhelicopters.com and/or www.verticalreference.com for the complete Silver State story. Those sites are pretty good for getting the current pulse of the helicopter industry as it applies to new pilots.

I did my ATP in an R-44 and I personally don't care for the Robinsons, which after flying everything from MH-47s on down rendered me incapable of keeping it within the confines of a soccer field for the first 30 minutes. However, they are undeniably the C-172s of the helicopter training industry, and you're going to have to get trained in them at some point to satisfy SFAR 73 which pertains specifically to Robinsons. Most, if not all entry level CFI jobs are in R-22s. I like the Schweizers just because they're more conventional.

As far as jobs, I'll refer once again to Silver State helicopters. They truly did a disservice to the industry because when they abruptly closed their doors, they also put hundreds of low time Robinson CFIs out on the streets. Hence, they're pretty easy to find as all are still chasing the helicopter dream, have thousands in student loans due, and will usually work for cheap. Also, to a lesser extent than with the post-Vietnam era, the market is also currently being infused with fairly high time military helo pilots with lots of turbine and mountain time. The military equivelency which allowed all military IPs to obtain CFI/IIs made the field even more competitive.

I know the company I work for gets a dozen applications weekly from multi-thousand hr Robby pilots, and at least a couple cold call walk-ins from Army pilots from the base up the road (don't do this, is pisses off the Chief Pilot) It varies from job to job, but the mean average to be qualified for just about any turbine position that you can live off of is 2,500-3,000 TT with at least 1,500 turbine helo PIC. It's all driven by insurance requirements. Don't mean to paint a bleak picture, but knowleadge is power!

MR-

Did not realize the Robinson helicopters have had so many mast bumping incidents.

New Zealand’s aviation safety watchdog Thursday added Torrance-made Robinson Helicopter Co. choppers to its “watch list of most pressing concerns,” citing 14 “mast bumping” accidents that have killed 18 people in the past 20 years...A mast bump is contact between an inner part of a main rotor blade and the main rotor drive shaft or “mast.” The TAIC noted the outcome is usually “catastrophic.”

http://www.dailybreeze.com/general-...nson-helicopters-on-watch-list-in-new-zealand
 
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