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Flight Pay Changes

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I think you're looking at this too narrowly. This, from what I understand, is just one of many tools they're using to address retention. Let's also be clear - PERS can only do so much, so they're doing what they can within the budgetary constraints that are beyond their control.

I get that this is one of many tools but this particular change would upend a longstanding benefit for aviators that I think might hurt more than it is worth in the end. Like I said before, use the bonuses as the incentive tool to shape the force and not a combo of that and flight pay. It is a relatively small amount but changing the way it is paid out could have an outsized impact, and not in a good way. It just seems tone deaf to me and not in a narrow or emotional way, which in fact PERS ought to taking into account when dealing with people. PERS can only do so much money-wise but they have other, non-monetary tools they can utilize as well.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
How so? From what I can tell, nobody's flight pay will go down.

You will create a two-tiered system with have and have-nots though. Flight pay has caused friction for folks who don't get it now, the SWO's and even Army ground-pounders gave use aviators some grief and not all of it good-natured about it, now you introduce that dynamic into ready rooms. And while it might not be an idea now I also wouldn't put it past folks to try and 'equalize' it sooner of later so that for some it does go down, why not if it goes up for others?
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
You will create a two-tiered system with have and have-nots though.
We already have a multi-tiered system for bonuses of all kinds. Differences between designators and platforms, and even for individual rates and NECs for enlisted SRBs. Furthermore, we already assign different compensation levels based on years of aviation experience. Do the JOs all seeth with envy at those of us who are in a higher flight pay bracket? Getting $150 more per month to take a tough due course post-DH job isn't going to lead to the complete social breakdown of Naval Aviation.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
We already have a multi-tiered system for bonuses of all kinds. Differences between designators and platforms, and even for individual rates and NECs for enlisted SRBs. Furthermore, we already assign different compensation levels based on years of aviation experience. Do the JOs all seeth with envy at those of us who are in a higher flight pay bracket? Getting $150 more per month to take a tough due course post-DH job isn't going to lead to the complete social breakdown of Naval Aviation.

Then why go through all the trouble of changing the system for a mere $150 a month? How on earth is that going to help? It won't make folks seethe with anger but it'll be yet another small thing that might make folks think WTF is the Navy thinking.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Then why go through all the trouble of changing the system for a mere $150 a month? How on earth is that going to help? It won't make folks seethe with anger but it'll be yet another small thing that might make folks think WTF is the Navy thinking.
Because it's used in combination with other small incentives to produce a more compelling overall incentive. I believe we covered this.
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Because it's used in combination with other small incentives to produce a more compelling overall incentive. I believe we covered this.
That may be, but that small incentive, coupled with the bonus incentive, pales in comparison with the pay and opportunity for pilots in the airlines these days. And while that will not entice many, it is enough to continue to pose a serious enough problem. Even the Air Force's massive 35K/year bonus still doesn't make up the difference in pay beyond year 2-3 at some carriers, and that's just money. Let's not forget the vastly reduced schedule, increased home-time, less BS to contend with (i.e. everything beyond flying), and the 16% automatic contribution to my retirement account over and above pay, and even profit-sharing in some cases.

But sure, rah rah, service to your country, something bigger than yourself, etc, etc. That worked when we were excited to be ENSes. I think it's lost its luster for many beyond the JO level. We've done our service, and now for many of us, it's about what's best/most advantageous for us and our families. And a couple hundred bucks a month and 25 grand a year for a couple years isn't cutting it for a job increasingly filled with bullshit and administrivia, far-removed from the war-fighting we keep getting punted our way from admirals who encourage us to stay in for something bigger than ourselves.
 

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
I could see the problem being what defines due course and how that will affect longer term retention.

If a guy gets a non-due course job through no fault of his own, then he knows very clearly how the Navy values him due to the simple disparity in pay. Why should he stay at that point? All he'll become is fodder on the next promotion or admin board.

It will create a distinct have and have-not system that detailers won't be able to explain away. Why would a guy stick around if the Navy just told him that he's in a job that will probably not get him promoted.
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
I think there's another story here about how this isn't going to move the needle, and it's separate from the actual amount of ACIP increase: pre-decisional or not, Pers finds themselves behind the speed of 2018 - again. NDAA authorized this in April 2017. We're told to expect a decision approximately one year later. The DFAS pay charts come out creating questions. Navy dudes call their Af bros to find out what they're getting. Dudes on web forums and various other outlets begin discussing/speculating. A pre-decisional brief finds its way around those same forums - all the while the only thing that Pers would have to do (again, this is 2018) is post a statement to their facebook page. Some emails went to NAE leadership - some of that was shared. The piecemeal method of conveying relatively important information to the masses SUCKS - still. And it's very typical. It's the same story with board results and various other important pieces of information out of Pers. It's indicative of a sluggish, antiquated and non-learning organization.*

*Go ahead @Treetop Flyer - it's a safe link....
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
I think there's another story here about how this isn't going to move the needle, and it's separate from the actual amount of ACIP increase: pre-decisional or not, Pers finds themselves behind the speed of 2018 - again. NDAA authorized this in April 2017. We're told to expect a decision approximately one year later. The DFAS pay charts come out creating questions. Navy dudes call their Af bros to find out what they're getting. Dudes on web forums and various other outlets begin discussing/speculating. A pre-decisional brief finds its way around those same forums - all the while the only thing that Pers would have to do (again, this is 2018) is post a statement to their facebook page. Some emails went to NAE leadership - some of that was shared. The piecemeal method of conveying relatively important information to the masses SUCKS - still. And it's very typical. It's the same story with board results and various other important pieces of information out of Pers. It's indicative of a sluggish, antiquated and non-learning organization.*

*Go ahead @Treetop Flyer - it's a safe link....

I’m starting to think you might actually care about my opinion about your links.

And since we’ve established that you care... I didn’t click on it.
 
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