Disassociated Tour /Flying Time

[Charles Edward]

What is exactly is meant by a disassociated tour? Does this mean that an aviator is back on a carrier after a shore tour, but does not actually fly? If so, does the aviator fly at all when he/she is on a shore tour earning a graduate degree or on staff, etc?

I would imagine that even if an aviator is not in a flying position at a particular time, he/she would need to flying time to keep skills current. Or perhaps not? I do not know. Hence, my post.

Thanks.

 

[Uncle Fester]

A sea tour (i.e., deploying or at least deployable; not necessarily on a boat) thats intended to expose you to the broader Navy than your home community. There are some flying dissasoc tours, or ones where you can wrangle flying time, but it's not really intended to be an operational flying tour.

For instance, we often flew air wing, ship, and admiral's staff guys who came from VAW. But it wasn't their "real" job to fly. Some did it to maintain currency and keep limber for going back to the Fleet. Some just to get off the Boat and away from Staff Stuff for a while.

 

[Charles Edward]

A sea tour (i.e., deploying or at least deployable; not necessarily on a boat) thats intended to expose you to the broader Navy than your home community. There are some flying dissasoc tours, or ones where you can wrangle flying time, but it's not really intended to be an operational flying tour.

For instance, we often flew air wing, ship, and admiral's staff guys who came from VAW. But it wasn't their "real" job to fly. Some did it to maintain currency and keep limber for going back to the Fleet. Some just to get off the Boat and away from Staff Stuff for a while.

Thanks. So, what kind of jobs do aviators perform when on a carrier, but not associated with a squadron? Is this where, for example, they can learn to drive a ship?

What if an aviator is allowed to attend grad school full-time? Is there any chance they can fly during this time. I knew someone who went to grad school full-time as an Army officer, but was not an aviator. So, it didn't seem to matter if the officer performed her usual job while studying. It just seems that flying is one of those skills one needs to keep sharp and current.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Thanks. So, what kind of jobs do aviators perform when on a carrier, but not associated with a squadron? Is this where, for example, they can learn to drive a ship?

What if an aviator is allowed to attend grad school full-time? Is there any chance they can fly during this time. I knew someone who went to grad school full-time as an Army officer, but was not an aviator. So, it didn't seem to matter if the officer performed her usual job while studying. It just seems that flying is one of those skills one needs to keep sharp and current.

It depends greatly on your community, but very broadly speaking, the vast majority of dissasoc billets are seagoing or forward-deployed (shore based outside the US) staffs, and ship's company (assigned to the ship's crew, as opposed to the air wing or embarked staffs). Specific billets are widely varied, but common ships company jobs include Assistant Navigator, and Shooter (i.e., the guys who launch and recover aircraft from the Boat).

There are training pipelines to get guys returning to the Fleet from a non-flying tour back up to speed; it's common and not an issue. If you fly at PG school, it's either on your own time/own dime, or you worked a drug deal with a local flying unit.

 

[Charles Edward]

Thanks again for all the info.

If I'm correct, a JO serves a three year carrier tour after flight school in which he/she flies, then a two year shore tour, followed by a three year disassociated sea tour, then yet another two shore tour?

If the above is even somewhat accurate, then is it conceivable that an aviator can get no flying time for seven long years???

Does this happen in the Air Force?

I understand that one is an officer first and aviator second, but isn't this a bit much?

 

[picklesuit]

3,3,2. Not 3,2,3. Extensions and ordmods notwithstanding.

 

[squorch2]

If you don't fly for that first shore tour, you have almost zero chance of flying ever again. So it's more like 5 years at most. More like 2-3 in the real world. (No second shore for most people.)

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

Thanks again for all the info.

If I'm correct, a JO serves a three year carrier tour after flight school in which he/she flies, then a two year shore tour, followed by a three year disassociated sea tour, then yet another two shore tour?

If the above is even somewhat accurate, then is it conceivable that an aviator can get no flying time for seven long years???

Does this happen in the Air Force?

I understand that one is an officer first and aviator second, but isn't this a bit much?

The first shore tour is also typically flying. Either being an instructor for the FRS/VT's, or going to the community's weapons/tactics unit, or going to test pilot school. There are first shore tours that don't involve flying, such as NROTC or USNA instructors, but they tend to be very not-good for your career. This is the part where you ask about the Golden Path (shit-hot sea tour, FRS/weapons school, Shooter/ANAV or a Super JO tour, then something else career enhancing, then you pick up department head and make O-4). So most of your flying will usually happen in your first two tours.
I don't know how the Air Force does it, but I'm sure it involves more golf.

 

[Charles Edward]

Flying during the shore tour? Ok, that makes more sense. And, to clarify, the shore tour is also three years, not two years?

What happens if a pilot is selected for a full-time graduate school program? I assume that this happens during a shore tour and may not involve any flying as a previous poster stated. I guess if the shore tour is three years, perhaps one can earn a master's at night?

Either way, thanks for all the info.

PS

Is there a place on the site that has a glossary for all the acronyms? ha ha

Thx.

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

Flying during the shore tour? Ok, that makes more sense. And, to clarify, the shore tour is also three years, not two years?

What happens if a pilot is selected for a full-time graduate school program? I assume that this happens during a shore tour and may not involve any flying as a previous poster stated. I guess if the shore tour is three years, perhaps one can earn a master's at night?

Either way, thanks for all the info.

PS

Is there a place on the site that has a glossary for all the acronyms? ha ha

Thx.

Not sure if there's a glossary on here, but for the ones I used:

FRS: Fleet Replacement Squadron
VT's: Training Squadrons (e.g. Primary, Advanced)
ANAV: Assistant Navigator, like Uncle Fester said
Super JO: In my understanding, it's a junior officer who goes to the weapons school for the shore tour, then goes back to a deployable squadron on their second sea tour to teach weapons and tactics. My community calls it a SMTI ("Smitty"), a squadron maritime tactics instructor.

Quite a few of my instructors in Primary and Advanced were working on graduate degrees in their down time. If your shore tour was at an NROTC unit or the Academy, that would also be an opportunity. Another would be getting picked up for Naval Postgraduate School (aka NPS or PG School). That's typically more of a second shore tour thing.

 

[AFUAW]

Super JO: In my understanding, it's a junior officer who goes to the weapons school for the shore tour, then goes back to a deployable squadron on their second sea tour to teach weapons and tactics. My community calls it a SMTI ("Smitty"), a squadron maritime tactics instructor.

Generally (at least in the VFA world) a Juper JO is a JO who is not an SFTI but managed to swing a bonus squadron tour in lieu of the disassociated tour. An SFTI going to a squadron post-Weapons School, TOPGUN, etc. shore tour is a traditional training officer tour whereas a Super JO tour is rather non-traditional.

 

[Charles Edward]

Great info on this site. Much thanks. I assume super JOs are few and far between, as is obtaining a consecutive deployable squadron tour. What about those aviators who get to go to grad schools like Stanford or MIT on the Navy's time and then go to test pilot school? I would assume these are also super JOs?

FRS? Is this a flying tour that is land based as opposed to carrier based? Is a test pilot tour considered part of FRS?

 

[Brett327]

Generally (at least in the VFA world) a Juper JO is a JO who is not an SFTI but managed to swing a bonus squadron tour in lieu of the disassociated tour. An SFTI going to a squadron post-Weapons School, TOPGUN, etc. shore tour is a traditional training officer tour whereas a Super JO tour is rather non-traditional.

That's not how I would characterize it. Training Officers are super JOs (even in VFA). Other super JOs are usually your oddball transition people or those whose timing, for whatever reason, made a normal disassociated tour impractical.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Usually Super JOs in VAW were the WTIs. Go to CAEWWS (Fallon) or WTULant/Pac for your shore tour and then back to the Fleet for your disassoc as the resident WTI. TrainO was a DH job.

There were a few Super JOs floating around from the Hoover transition, but that's long done.

 

[Gatordev]

FRS? Is this a flying tour that is land based as opposed to carrier based? Is a test pilot tour considered part of FRS?

First of all, your first (sea) tour is not "carrier based." It's squadron based, ie your squadron is based out of a land base. You then deploy on a) a carrier, b) a small boy, or c) if you're VP/VQ, you deploy to some far away land base.

The FRS and the training commands (VTs and HTs) are referred to "Production Tours" and are flying tours instructing students. Generally, you don't deploy, but you may spend times away from home supporting detachments.