The Navy has really tightened down on the courses for IRR good years lately as you may have noticed reading this thread. It might be hard, and may well become even harder in the future, to successfully do 10 years to retirement given current trends.
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- Thread starter vxc961
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The Navy has really tightened down on the courses for IRR good years lately as you may have noticed reading this thread. It might be hard, and may well become even harder in the future, to successfully do 10 years to retirement given current trends.
lostSeaBee
SeaBee Memorial
I started in the IRR with 8 years as a SELRES. I've been in the IRR for 7 years now. I was promoted to LCDR after a year in the IRR. As an O-4 you can get 20 years, but I'm not sure you can as an O-3. You'll need to dig into that more. I really enjoy being in the IRR. I asked my wife a few weeks ago what she thinks, and she said I forgot you were still in the Navy. So the impact on the family is very low, as opposed to SELRES which was very high demand for a CEC Officer. Getting 50 points for a good year is fairly simple with NETC and other courses. I've mainly done NETC and FEMA courses. I try to get my courses done as early as possible so that I can see the number of points on my Statement of Service for Reserve Retirement record. Then I know I'm good.
Thanks for the tips. Certainly can't make 20 years as an O-3, however 8 years prior enlisted time prior to commissioning allows me to hit 20 years, even as an O-3. Want to ensure I save the quickest/easiest courses for after I join the IRR.
I looked into the VTU, but it still requires going to a NOSC, doing height & weight, medical, etc. and I am not going to be able to do that, unfortunately. If anyone has any experience in a VTU, would much appreciate your insights.
vxc961
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It sounds like you've done your homework, and by my back-of-the-napkin calls, you'll be OK. Title 10, chap 36 governs officer attrition, which basically says as a LT they'll boot you seven months after you fail to select the second time (when the results are released). So, you'll go up brfore the O4 board with around ten years of commissioned service (18 total years) and be eligible for sanctuary and get to 20.
The VTU is pretty horrible in my book, and you can imagine: All the GMT, lost documents, wasted time, tracking down people to do same, weigh ins, prt, hassles in between drills...but your not getting paid.
subreservist
Well-Known Member
Making O4 in the reserve, whether SELRES or IRR, is more of a gimme than folks realize. You actually have to work harder not to make it. As long as you don't have an unexplained gap in your record or have a bunch of adverse FITREPS, you will most likely make that rank. 80-90% for most designators; some designators are even higher.
O5 in the IRR is another story.
The VTU has always been a component I've never understood. Drilling for non-pay? I can only see that benefiting an O5 or above, since at that rank you have to have a paid billet (which are limited) and that billet may not be local, forcing you to come out of pocket to get there (unless your a commercial airline pilot where you can fly for free). So I can see an O5 choosing a local VTU vice going out of the way to continue gaining points. But why would someone below that rank choose VTU? There are plenty of JO billets and there is the option to cross-assign and have the Navy pay your travel cost for a billet that is not local.
O5 in the IRR is another story.
The VTU has always been a component I've never understood. Drilling for non-pay? I can only see that benefiting an O5 or above, since at that rank you have to have a paid billet (which are limited) and that billet may not be local, forcing you to come out of pocket to get there (unless your a commercial airline pilot where you can fly for free). So I can see an O5 choosing a local VTU vice going out of the way to continue gaining points. But why would someone below that rank choose VTU? There are plenty of JO billets and there is the option to cross-assign and have the Navy pay your travel cost for a billet that is not local.
The VTU allows a couple of things - much easier to get back to SelRes and also much easier to take some active duty orders for exercises, etc. If you want the ability to go to Europe or the Pacific on an exercise, then consider the VTU. VTU is also given the option of continuing SGLI.
Billets for O-5's are not that hard to find, O-6 is another story - especially local. The ability to commute for free and the flexibility of an airline schedule is a substantial part of the reason why so many of those SelRes billets are filled by airline pilots. There is not another job that meshes as well with the reserves as an airline pilot.
Billets for O-5's are not that hard to find, O-6 is another story - especially local. The ability to commute for free and the flexibility of an airline schedule is a substantial part of the reason why so many of those SelRes billets are filled by airline pilots. There is not another job that meshes as well with the reserves as an airline pilot.
As far as pay for the VTU and giving it up, its not an issue for me as I don't get paid for being SELRES as i've got a VA rating that outweighs my reserve pay and federal law says you can't double dip, so i've already waived my SELRES drill pay and am in the SELRES drilling for no pay, just points.
subreservist
Well-Known Member
I guess I still don't fully see it...not sure why if your good to go from IRR to VTU that you wouldn't be good to go from IRR to SELRES? Unless there is something that is not required while in VTU status like PRT or medical? But my understanding is everything applies, you just are in non-pay status.
For SELRES, I only really see the value if you need points and can't find a local billet. Or as you state, an IRR wanting to go on orders - but, again, you could just go back full SELRES and do that. I have heard others mention "building credibility" in the VTU toward eventual SELRES, but I'm missing the connection as to what's stopping a member from a SELRES return from the outset? My only guess is there are somethings that you don't have to do or maintain while in VTU.
Although there are plenty of O5 billets, they may not be local to the member. I know this is "Air Warriors", so there obviously a large contingent associated with airlines and travelling to a billet is not a cost they have to worry about. But for all other designators or members without that perk, getting a O5 billet that works comfortably can be challenging, especially if you are at a small NOSC. So if you don't grab a local CO/OIC/Dept Head type billet, you are "forced" to a different location in order to stay in a paid billet at your own expense. If the travel is a pain, I could see an O5 or above choosing to park in VTU.
Point of clarification...
There are two flavors of IRR:
IRR (Voluntary Training Unit)
IRR (Active Status Pool)
IRR (Voluntary Training Unit) is an attractive option for people who do not want to be IRR (Active Status Pool) doing courses, etc., but want to still "play" (i.e., have CAC, participate) without having to worry about being MOB'd. While in IRR/VTU you can be assigned Additional Duty (ADDU) to a unit providing support.
You may not get paid but the tax benefits are very helpful for some of us.
There are two flavors of IRR:
IRR (Voluntary Training Unit)
IRR (Active Status Pool)
IRR (Voluntary Training Unit) is an attractive option for people who do not want to be IRR (Active Status Pool) doing courses, etc., but want to still "play" (i.e., have CAC, participate) without having to worry about being MOB'd. While in IRR/VTU you can be assigned Additional Duty (ADDU) to a unit providing support.
You may not get paid but the tax benefits are very helpful for some of us.
Thanks for posting. If anyone needs to take a look, here it is - the Navy Reserve Administrative Procedures BUPERSINST 1001.39F
http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-n...UPERSInstructions/Documents/1001.39F_CH-1.pdf
subreservist
Well-Known Member
Ok, so I can definitely see how VTU is a benefit in terms of not being on the mob list. Is it correct to surmise, since it falls under the IRR umbrella that GMT, medical, PRT and popping up on a urinalysis list are not required or conducted, since that is not required for IRR ASP? Or does the VTU do everything a SELRES unit would do for non-pay, except not mob?
I guess I'll just pop my head into the NOSC and inquire...just trying to understand the intangibles that the instruction really doesn't specify.
The reason I'm pinging on it so much is if I'm "drilling" at a NOSC on a DWE and doing all the elements of a SELRES drill, why would I choose not to get paid for my time?
I get the drill points/wanting to "play" vice not searching for coloring books, but why not drill AND be paid since you're there anyway? Unless there are just a lot things that you don't have to do since its under IRR.
I guess I'll just pop my head into the NOSC and inquire...just trying to understand the intangibles that the instruction really doesn't specify.
The reason I'm pinging on it so much is if I'm "drilling" at a NOSC on a DWE and doing all the elements of a SELRES drill, why would I choose not to get paid for my time?
I get the drill points/wanting to "play" vice not searching for coloring books, but why not drill AND be paid since you're there anyway? Unless there are just a lot things that you don't have to do since its under IRR.
vxc961
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SubRes: I think there's a disconnect in your understanding. Going VTU->Selres is relatively easy. Going IRR->Selres/VTU is pretty tough (yes, I know VTU is technically IrR). I actually tried to go IRR->VTU and was told "nice try, why would we recruit you unless it was for selres?"
VTU might be desirable if you don't want to travel, don't want to MOB, or (I guess..) if you have a VA disability rating and don't want to suck up a paid billet.
Yes, VTU is all the tail-pain of selres, but no pay.
subreservist
Well-Known Member
Awesome...thanks VXC...that was the answer I needed and that makes sense.
Ok. I can stop derailing the thread now...lol!
Ok. I can stop derailing the thread now...lol!
For the IRR/VTU you have to maintain the same standards as you do while in SELRES: PFA, GMT, Admin, etc.
There are senior officers (O5 and O6) in the IRR/VTU because they are not able to find paid billets. Re, not getting paid. Who cares? The only thing that matters when you retire is your rank and the number of points you have accumulated. I never counted on my O3E pay for my bills and made it a habit of spending what I made in the Reserve by traveling to drill and AT on my own dime. At the end of the year, it saved me a good deal of money on my tax bill (Reserve expenses all go on Form 2106 which is transferred to Form 1040 line 24 "certain business expenses of reservists.")
Aside from O5/O6 who cannot find a paid billet, the main advantage of IRR/VTU, in my opinion, is not having to worry about getting MOB'd but still being somewhat useful. For those of us prior enlisted who deployed our entire active duty careers and who now have lucrative civilian jobs, this seems like a win-win. A few colleagues of mine are all facing the same dilemma.
If you are an O3 with only a few years left to your 20 and want to go IRR/VTU wait until you get your last FITREP before your O4 board. After you get your FITREP in February, then either transfer over to IRR/VTU or wait until you hear if you are selected and then transfer over. After you transfer over, immediately request ADDU to a unit so you can provide support and ride it out until your 20. You get to stay connected (CAC card), maintain your clearance, etc.
While it would be "cool" to make O5 and O6, which is pretty doable as an 1825 (O5 is 70% and above chance of selection and O6 is 50%), the time value of money equation does not add up. That is, the time invested in doing what I would need to do to make O5/O6 and the impact on my civilian job (and income) does not justify the difference in retirement pay 18 years from now. That is, why would I let my day job suffer so I can make an extra few hundred bucks a month in retirement 18 years from now versus earning that money now in my day job and investing it at 7% or more per year for the next 18 years so that I have it when I am 60?
The best value out of a Reserve retirement will be the benefits, which you will receive no matter your rank.
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