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Consolidated Advice for Primary

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
#91
I'd be interested to see what those gouge FTI numbers are relative to actual on-speed numbers. I'm willing to bet you have quite a bit of margin for error...
I'd be interested, too. In the T-34, 95 knots was always on-speed with the flaps up, but with the flaps down, it was a little more fluid.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
#92
They’re about 3-5 knots faster than on speed when you’re at a typical gross weight for early fam pattern work. If you barely do any high work or go straight to the pattern then they’re pretty much on speed because you’re showing up at the OLF with more gas than usual.

If you fly a very tight downwind, so that you use closer to 45° than 30 angle of bank in your approach turn, and you fly precisely the prescribed airspeed for your chosen flap setting, then you’re usually solidly in the green chevron with no amber donut. I’m pretty sure the FTI had a few disclaimers along the lines of “but no slower than on speed AoA” though.

A big reason why the gouge power settings often seem a couple percent too low is that new students make a lot of small airwork mistakes and corrections- and those little deviations tend to bleed energy from the abeam all the way through final. It’s all part of learning. The emergency landing pattern even moreso- even post solo students often unwittingly find a way to go from being a thousand feet above profile to having an energy deficit at high key. (Good students included.)
 

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
#93
Would a student get shit on if they just flew the pattern at 130ish knots and just bled it all off in the flare?

99% of the time I fly the Hornet/Super Hornet fast and flare when at the field...mostly because a long time ago my owning told me "don't ever get slow"
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
#94
Would a student get shit on if they just flew the pattern at 130ish knots and just bled it all off in the flare?
I told my students that the +10/-0 standard meant it was better to be 10 knots fast than 1 knot slow, albeit 1-2~ish knots slow "momentary with timely corrections not affecting the safety of flight" was also acceptable.

Pretty much everybody would take their onwings straight to the pattern via a surprise practice PEL a few minutes after takeoff- partly to mix up the profile but partly to expose them to the subtly different handling around the pattern.

10 knots fast in the downwind leg is unnecessary in the T-6 but 5-10 fast on final has very little consequence- long touchdown by 500-1000 feet of so, the prop has a lot of drag at idle in the flare... well, except when the wind is calm. Be fast on a calm wind day and you either float really far or you touchdown really fast (don't forget, it's non antiskid brakes only, no spoilers, reverse thrust, etc.) and that would be its own lesson...
 

SynixMan

Professional CCX Wrangler
pilot
Contributor
#95
Would a student get shit on if they just flew the pattern at 130ish knots and just bled it all off in the flare?

99% of the time I fly the Hornet/Super Hornet fast and flare when at the field...mostly because a long time ago my owning told me "don't ever get slow"
Short answer, a little. Like @Jim123 said, the T-6 floats a lot in the flare with any extra speed, and we have 4k and 5k OLFs in the Whiting Area. SNAs really don't have the mechanics down to purposefully and reliably bleed a 10 knots to get on speed between groove the flare.

With regard to just flying on speed, I agree that's a great advanced technique, but a lot of times we're trying to get from "Never having flown anything besides a C172" to "Safely landing a 7k high performance trainer reliably". My goal for a FAM block student is to recognize high/low visually, fast/slow (KIAS), and lineup, consistently, then make changes in the right direction (right magnitude is step 2) WRT power, pitch, and AOB. This comes quickly to some and slower to others, but most folks eventually get it and move on.

AOA is a different scan pattern and leaves a bit less cushion on the low side of speed, and that's where a student can really get into trouble/break the little baby landing gear we have. Not just stalling out, but chopping power and getting a big sink rate. The FTI parameters keep them in a fairly safe box.
 
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