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Army Aviator Wings

J

JWL

Member
Are Army aviator wings ever awarded to non-fliers/non-pilots?

Army Lt. General Harold Moore, of "We Were Soldiers" fame died recently . According to his bio, he was commissioned in the infantry following his West Point graduation. However, at one point in his career he was awarded the Basic Army Aviator Badge. He also awarded the Air Medal. It is not clear from his bio that he was ever anything other than an infantry officer and therefore did not receive pilot training. If so, how then would someone receive aviator oriented badges and medals.

Thanks.
 
HAL Pilot

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
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Contributor
Back in the day, Army Aviation was not a separate branch. Aviators came from Infantry, Armor, Medical Service, Artillery, Transportation, etc.

Nonaviators can get Air Medals too. My Dad got a couple of Strike Flight awards and an individual one working command and control from the back of helos during one of his Viet Nam tours.
 
J

JWL

Member
HAL Pilot said:
Back in the day, Army Aviation was not a separate branch. Aviators came from Infantry, Armor, Medical Service, Artillery, Transportation, etc.

Nonaviators can get Air Medals too. My Dad got a couple of Strike Flight awards and an individual one working command and control from the back of helos during one of his Viet Nam tours.
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So, I guess if you were somehow associated with helos back in Vietnam, once could earn the wings even if not a pilot. A bit confusing. I assume this does not happen anymore.
 
GroundPounder

GroundPounder

Well-Known Member
JWL said:
So, I guess if you were somehow associated with helos back in Vietnam, once could earn the wings even if not a pilot. A bit confusing. I assume this does not happen anymore.
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No, you didn't get pilot's wings by being associated with an aviation unit, Aviation just did not have their own branch. It predates my time, so I can't give you specifics, but a person might complete a tour in their branch and then go to flight school to take a pilot's slot. For example, an Infantry 2LT finishes his platoon leader tour and goes to flight school . After that a a flying tour he may go back to an Infantry slot, which was his " home " branch.

Now, Aviation in the Army is it;s own branch in and of itself.
 
Flash

Flash

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JWL said:
So, I guess if you were somehow associated with helos back in Vietnam, once could earn the wings even if not a pilot. A bit confusing. I assume this does not happen anymore.
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GroundPounder said:
No, you didn't get pilot's wings by being associated with an aviation unit, Aviation just did not have their own branch. It predates my time, so I can't give you specifics, but a person might complete a tour in their branch and then go to flight school to take a pilot's slot. For example, an Infantry 2LT finishes his platoon leader tour and goes to flight school. After that a flying tour he may go back to an Infantry slot, which was his " home " branch.
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No, as GroundPounder says even back then pilot wings had to be earned. The only exception, at least in the Navy, is to become an 'Honorary Naval Aviator' which is a pretty rare distinction and usually only given after decades of service in support of Naval Aviation (there is actually OPNAV Instruction for it). I couldn't find an equivalent honorary Army Aviator program but if someone were to be designated an 'Honorary Army Aviator' LTG Moore would have been a logical person to honor given his distinguished combat history with the air cavalry.

The other option is that LTG Moore actually went to flight school which according to one link he apparently did, in 1969. He would have been a Brigadier General at the which would have been very unusual but given the times I would not be surprised if he wrangled a spot since he was going to command a division, the 7th in Korea, with significant aviation assets. Senior officers in the Navy did something similar in the 20's and 30's to be eligible to command carriers, 'Bull' Halsey got his wings as a 52 year old CAPT in 1935.
 
Uncle Fester

Uncle Fester

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Flash said:
The other option is that LTG Moore actually went to flight school which according to one link he apparently did, in 1969. He would have been a Brigadier General at the which would have been very unusual but given the times I would not be surprised if he wrangled a spot since he was going to command a division, the 7th in Korea, with significant aviation assets. Senior officers in the Navy did something similar in the 20's and 30's to be eligible to command carriers, 'Bull' Halsey got his wings as a 52 year old CAPT in 1935.
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My impression is that BITD the Army regarded pilot training as just another school/qual, so I guess it'd be sort of like a non-paratrooper going to jump school before reporting to an airborne unit, even if he wasn't a 'career' paratrooper.
 
J

JWL

Member
Uncle Fester said:
My impression is that BITD the Army regarded pilot training as just another school/qual, so I guess it'd be sort of like a non-paratrooper going to jump school before reporting to an airborne unit, even if he wasn't a 'career' paratrooper.
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Thanks, all.

It's kind of odd that I can't find anything definitive about whether Gen. Moore was an actual pilot. But, in any case, he was certainly a great soldier.
 
Flash

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
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Super Moderator
Contributor
JWL said:
...It's kind of odd that I can't find anything definitive about whether Gen. Moore was an actual pilot. But, in any case, he was certainly a great soldier.
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This bio also mentions he was a qualified helo pilot so it is pretty safe to say that is exactly what he was. As for why it isn't mentioned more often, he had plenty of other accomplishments that outshined that and as Fester says the Army probably just considered it just another qual back then (and kind of still do).
 
Flash

Flash

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Super Moderator
Contributor
Uncle Fester said:
The Air Medal is "for meritorious achievement while participating in aerial flight." It can be and has been awarded to non-aircrew.
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DFC's too, I have seen several Army Vietnam vets sporting DFC's without wings.
 
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