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Anyone have the Surefire Warden blast diverter?

ChuckMK23

Former H-46 Driver
pilot
#1
Anyone have the Surefire Warden blast diverter? I have a Surefire muzzle brake and had someone at my local range complain about its use -namely the noise and consussion.

http://www.surefire.com/warden.html



I would love a supressor but the NFA rules are a little much for me (keeping it within state lines, paper work, record keeping , not being able to loan it out, etc)

Seems like a cool looking device too -

@Gatordev ?
 

ChuckMK23

Former H-46 Driver
pilot
#3
I don't have one, but aren't those blast diverters more for SBRs?

Also, what caliber rifle? FWIW, I have a BCM compensator a 5.56 target rifle, and it's a solid compromise between reducing muzzle rise and flash with minimal extra side-blast. IMO, a full-on muzzle brake is a bit over-the-top on a 5.56 for most applications.

Standard AR 16" carbine in 5.56 :) I agree a full on MB is a bit much - it looks cool and I received it gratis at a 3 gun match. It is ridiculously effective during rapid competition style fire. Literally the red dot just wobbles a little shot after shot...
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
#4
Will come back and comment, but overall, I'm not a fan. Also I think you have a legacy brake, which brings some risk.

You're understanding of suppressors has some errors which I'll come back to. BL: Buy a can, especially now. They're stupid cheap, even the SF models.

And who complains about gun noise at a gun range? [/rhetoric]
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
#5
So my $.02 as some guy on the internet...

I've shot next to a Warden and it seemed just as loud. I guess if you're closer, it helps with the side blast, but that also means it reduces the recoil impulse/muzzle flip mitigation, which defeats the point of having the brake in the first place. Plus it's adding a few more ounces on the end of your barrel with no real benefit to you, only to others. I wouldn't be surprised if it affected POI, as well, but I don't have first hand knowledge on that one.

I get being around a brake can be annoying, and I'm one of those guys that runs a couple of them, especially on my 12.5" competition guns. They're annoying when RO'ing, but they also keep a well tuned gun stupid flat. I find the difference between an A2 (or in my case a -212 or Closed-Tine SF mount) and a brake are noticeable on the timer. And I'm not a flash hider hater and appreciate it for what it is...it does provide some compensation.

Since the Warden uses the SOCOM RC mounting system, it will fit and lock on a legacy SF mount but SF has stopped endorsing using SOCOM cans on legacy mounts due to supposed baffle strikes...presumably due to other reasons like stupid shooters, but since they're different systems, I can understand them not wanting to replace cans. I personally never had any issues, but there's potential.

NFA rules are a little much for me (...paper work, record keeping , not being able to loan it out, etc)
Lastly, suppressors/NFA talk: suppressors are not like all the other NFA items. They do NOT require permission to cross state lines. Also, NFA items in general don't have to stay within state lines, the ATF just has to be notified. Turnaround is 2-3 weeks and the notification is good for one year. You can submit multiple .20 forms for different locations. Interestingly, after IRMA, the ATF even stated that evac'ing with NFA items is excused. They still want the notice, but there's no expectation for approval before you leave.

Other than the .20 forms, the paperwork is mostly a one-time thing. If you're good with paying a little extra, Silencer Shop will do all the legwork for you and even provide you the extras if you use their Kiosk system. Once the stamp is approved, there's no record keeping other than making sure your stamp is put in a safe place (and depending on state laws, you have a photo copy of your stamp traveling with your item...in FL that's not really a thing, in TX it's required). And even if the Form/stamp is lost/damaged, you can get another Form 4/Form 1 copy from the ATF for free (though it won't have the stamp on it).

If you don't go the trust route, you are correct, you can't loan a NFA item out. But do you do that with Title 1 guns? I sure as hell wouldn't. That said, there's absolutely zero issue with letting someone shoot a Title 2 firearm at the range, as long as you are still somewhere on the property. The ATF has made this clear. If you go the trust route, you can add and remove whomever you want to have access to the item.

There's certainly some up front hassle getting into the NFA game, and a little bit more so now with 41F, but it's still not that bad and shooting suppressed or shooting an SBR is just such great fun. I mean don't tell me you wouldn't enjoy owning one of these!

 

ChuckMK23

Former H-46 Driver
pilot
#7
So my $.02 as some guy on the internet...

I've shot next to a Warden and it seemed just as loud. I guess if you're closer, it helps with the side blast, but that also means it reduces the recoil impulse/muzzle flip mitigation, which defeats the point of having the brake in the first place. Plus it's adding a few more ounces on the end of your barrel with no real benefit to you, only to others. I wouldn't be surprised if it affected POI, as well, but I don't have first hand knowledge on that one.

I get being around a brake can be annoying, and I'm one of those guys that runs a couple of them, especially on my 12.5" competition guns. They're annoying when RO'ing, but they also keep a well tuned gun stupid flat. I find the difference between an A2 (or in my case a -212 or Closed-Tine SF mount) and a brake are noticeable on the timer. And I'm not a flash hider hater and appreciate it for what it is...it does provide some compensation.

Since the Warden uses the SOCOM RC mounting system, it will fit and lock on a legacy SF mount but SF has stopped endorsing using SOCOM cans on legacy mounts due to supposed baffle strikes...presumably due to other reasons like stupid shooters, but since they're different systems, I can understand them not wanting to replace cans. I personally never had any issues, but there's potential.



Lastly, suppressors/NFA talk: suppressors are not like all the other NFA items. They do NOT require permission to cross state lines. Also, NFA items in general don't have to stay within state lines, the ATF just has to be notified. Turnaround is 2-3 weeks and the notification is good for one year. You can submit multiple .20 forms for different locations. Interestingly, after IRMA, the ATF even stated that evac'ing with NFA items is excused. They still want the notice, but there's no expectation for approval before you leave.

Other than the .20 forms, the paperwork is mostly a one-time thing. If you're good with paying a little extra, Silencer Shop will do all the legwork for you and even provide you the extras if you use their Kiosk system. Once the stamp is approved, there's no record keeping other than making sure your stamp is put in a safe place (and depending on state laws, you have a photo copy of your stamp traveling with your item...in FL that's not really a thing, in TX it's required). And even if the Form/stamp is lost/damaged, you can get another Form 4/Form 1 copy from the ATF for free (though it won't have the stamp on it).

If you don't go the trust route, you are correct, you can't loan a NFA item out. But do you do that with Title 1 guns? I sure as hell wouldn't. That said, there's absolutely zero issue with letting someone shoot a Title 2 firearm at the range, as long as you are still somewhere on the property. The ATF has made this clear. If you go the trust route, you can add and remove whomever you want to have access to the item.

There's certainly some up front hassle getting into the NFA game, and a little bit more so now with 41F, but it's still not that bad and shooting suppressed or shooting an SBR is just such great fun. I mean don't tell me you wouldn't enjoy owning one of these!

@Gatordev I just learned a TON - thank you! This is awesome info.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
#8
You're welcome. Now go buy a can. Arms Unlimited had SF RC1 cans at stupid prices recently. DO IT!