Accelerated Syllabus

[HokiePilot]

Sometimes, there's a disparity between how you were taught in Advanced and how you should fly in the Fleet. Trust the IP when he tells you to do it differently <cough> trim <cough>. It might just save your life sometime.

That is an interesting discussion to have. Both the TH-57C and H-60 should be trimmed. The trim works differently in a turn though. After doing it myself, I spend hundreds of hours trying to beat the habit out of SNAs and IUTs to constantly want to move the cyclic. After learning to not move the keep moving the cyclic, I wish I had the opportunity to fly a H-60 for a few hours to see how my new flying style transferred back to fleet aircraft. I don't know if was based on aircraft or training, but I rarely had a problem with Marine IUTs not trimming out the aircraft. It was a noticeable difference.

 

[Gatordev]

That is an interesting discussion to have. Both the TH-57C and H-60 should be trimmed. The trim works differently in a turn though. After doing it myself, I spend hundreds of hours trying to beat the habit out of SNAs and IUTs to constantly want to move the cyclic. After learning to not move the keep moving the cyclic, I wish I had the opportunity to fly a H-60 for a few hours to see how my new flying style transferred back to fleet aircraft. I don't know if was based on aircraft or training, but I rarely had a problem with Marine IUTs not trimming out the aircraft. It was a noticeable difference.

When I would do OFT-1 and OFT-2 with CAT 1 FRPs, their -57 habits were apparent by all the clicking I could hear in the cockpit. I get it...the -57 needs lots of clicking because of how it's designed. As you know, the -60 is different and at least as I've always been taught since my CAT 1 days, you don't trim into a turn because it can save you on a bad spatial-D day/night.

I've only done a few early events with CAT 2 -57 retreads, but I want to say initially they have the same "bad" habits coming back to the -60, but it's quickly unlearned because they get the power of the -60 AFCS. But their initial clicking fetish was still there, for no other reason than habit patterns, which is completely understandable.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Are we talking about techniques, or which syllabus to pick?

BTW, my airplane trims itself. Problem solved.

 

[Hopeful Hoya]

Are we talking about techniques, or which syllabus to pick?

BTW, my airplane trims itself. Problem solved.

That's pretty amazing, you don't even have to do it when changing regimes? (e.g. getting trimmed on speed for the Boat)

 

[Uncle Fester]

...I know that took dedication and resources. Don't ever volunteer that information...

I think I get what you're saying, but I'd caution the OP about not volunteering the information. There's a fine line between 'not volunteering' and 'withholding' information, where that line is in the eye of the beholder (IP in question), and I've seen guys come to grief over what was perceived as an integrity issue. Several squadrons will straight-up ask you if you have prior flight time, and even if they don't, it'll quickly become apparent that it's not your first time at the controls.

My advice is be straight up with your flight lead/on wing/IP - you have 300-ish hours and a rating, you really don't feel comfortable enough to take the accelerated track, etc. Bottom line is that they'll do what they want with you regardless - trying to work the system when you're brand-new at it is more likely to cause problems than result in Winning.

 

[wlawr005]

That's pretty amazing, you don't even have to do it when changing regimes? (e.g. getting trimmed on speed for the Boat)

It only auto trims in pitch when the flaps are in AUTO. Move the flaps to HALF or FULL and you have to trim. However, if you click the auto-throttles after you move the flaps, it will automatically trim it on-speed.

If you fly 18Cs there is *some* rudder trim involved depending on how bent/old your jet is.

 

[Gatordev]

Are we talking about techniques, or which syllabus to pick?

BTW, my airplane trims itself. Problem solved.

So does the -60, that's the problem. This is definitely technique, but at least on the HSL/M side, it's been a "standard" for a long time. In a nut-shell, you have two ways to trim: 1. by releasing a button and it holds what you've got and 2. a coolie hat that adjusts to whatever you want.

In the -57, due to it's trim design, you push a button while making a flight control input and then release it for the maneuver. It's very common to trim into a turn because the AFCS is very minimalist. In the -60, the technique is to push against the trim when turning so that if you get Spatial D, all you have to do is release the stick and the aircraft will return to it's (mostly) upright position, on heading/altitude/airspeed. Having a quick way to go straight and level at 150' at night over water is a very nice tool to have in your back pocket if you get discombobulated.

 

[Mr Spenz]

So does the -60, that's the problem. This is definitely technique, but at least on the HSL/M side, it's been a "standard" for a long time. In a nut-shell, you have two ways to trim: 1. by releasing a button and it holds what you've got and 2. a coolie hat that adjusts to whatever you want.

In the -57, due to it's trim design, you push a button while making a flight control input and then release it for the maneuver. It's very common to trim into a turn because the AFCS is very minimalist. In the -60, the technique is to push against the trim when turning so that if you get Spatial D, all you have to do is release the stick and the aircraft will return to it's (mostly) upright position, on heading/altitude/airspeed. Having a quick way to go straight and level at 150' at night over water is a very nice tool to have in your back pocket if you get discombobulated.

IPs in the HTs have actually been telling students more often now how the trim in the 60 works. Because with the 57 every input requires to be trimmed and some students struggle with it, IPs always comeback with "you'll never fly the 60 this way, you fly against it so you don't kill yourself but the A/C saves you in the event of experiencing Spatial D".

 

[wplax26]

There is a slight misunderstanding of how the accelerated syllabus is utilized. When we identify a stud who is eligible they simply follow the normal flow until they have meet or exceeded MIF in all areas. I can't prove the numbers but I have yet to see an accelerated stud have a poor NSS. Contacts are almost never accelerated but chopping off a few sims is not something I've seen anybody complain about yet! Perhaps this isn't the same among all squadrons but I haven't seen anyone denied the ability to fly the entire programs, even a former american eagle pilot.

 

[webmaster]

even a former american eagle pilot.

way to set the bar low there...

 

[puggle]

There is a slight misunderstanding of how the accelerated syllabus is utilized. When we identify a stud who is eligible they simply follow the normal flow until they have meet or exceeded MIF in all areas. I can't prove the numbers but I have yet to see an accelerated stud have a poor NSS. Contacts are almost never accelerated but chopping off a few sims is not something I've seen anybody complain about yet! Perhaps this isn't the same among all squadrons but I haven't seen anyone denied the ability to fly the entire programs, even a former american eagle pilot.

Based on your understanding, what is the "eligility criteria?"