17 Sept 2018 IWC DCO Board

[bubblehead]

I was just informed the total number of IP slots is now 12.

Makes sense from a manning perspective. The selection rates for IP's over last two O4 boards have been insane. The most recent FY19 O4 board had a selection rate of 95% for IP's. 4 of 5 Above Zone were selected and 15 of 20 In Zone were selected. The 5 In Zone who were not selected were in the IRR. So, from a SELRES perspective, it was 100% In Zone selection.

The FY18 O4 board when I was selected had an 87.50% select rate.

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

Makes sense from a manning perspective. The selection rates for IP's over last two O4 boards have been insane. The most recent FY19 O4 board had a selection rate of 95% for IP's. 4 of 5 Above Zone were selected and 15 of 20 In Zone were selected. The 5 In Zone who were not selected were in the IRR. So, from a SELRES perspective, it was 100% In Zone selection.

The FY18 O4 board when I was selected had an 87.50% select rate.

Is O-4 in the Reserve the point at which you're expected to mobilize often?

 

[bubblehead]

Is O-4 in the Reserve the point at which you're expected to mobilize often?

There is no expectation. If you listened to the rhetoric from our O6 IP cadre you should have your bag packed and ready. These same folks also say the same about getting your IP Intermediate qualification as soon as you can.

We have many in the IP from O1 - O5 (with the IP basic qualification) who have never MOB'd. I've never MOB'd and was at the top of the list across two designators for years. Even though "completion of an IA tour" (aka, MOB) is listed as one of the valued achievements prior to O4, I still picked up O4 on my first look on the FY18 board. Page 47 of the Community Brief lists what is valued for IP's.

Anyways, after you finish your IP basic you go on the national NIFR MOB list that is published monthly. It is ordered by Rank and Pay Entry Base Date (PEBD). Folks who are prior enlisted typically bubble to the top of the list due to their PEBD. If you've MOB'd you go to the bottom of the list. If you are in a grouping of folks all of whom who have MOB'd, you are ordered by your IMS date.

Our O6 IP leaders always hem and haw about getting your IP Basic done as fast as possible even though you have 36 months per instruction. I feel like they want you to finish fast so they will have more people on the MOB list. If they want more people on the list, then they would change the qualification timeline in the instruction.

There is zero incentive to finishing it in lightning speed. Remember, from O1 - O2 (4 years) you are an automatic "P" on your FITREP. Finishing your IP basic in 18 months is not going to get you anywhere from a promotion standpoint. No one cares that you finished your IP Basic "at twice the required rate." Page 47 of the Community Brief states that attainment of qualification is a valued achievement, not "finishing it ahead of your peers."

At any rate, there are numerous variables to MOB'ing. Timing (i.e., what is happening around the world) is one and the economy (most MOB's have numerous volunteers) is another. Also, MOB'ing is no guarantee that you will promote, even though "completion of an IA" tour is listed as one of the valued achievements. It is but one of the achievements that are valued but sometimes I feel like our leadership makes it sound like if you do not MOB then good luck getting selected. It's b.s.

 

[bryanteagle6]

How many years have you been in bubble?
Congrats on O4

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

There is no expectation. If you listened to the rhetoric from our O6 IP cadre you should have your bag packed and ready. These same folks also say the same about getting your IP Intermediate qualification as soon as you can.

We have many in the IP from O1 - O5 (with the IP basic qualification) who have never MOB'd. I've never MOB'd and was at the top of the list across two designators for years. Even though "completion of an IA tour" (aka, MOB) is listed as one of the valued achievements prior to O4, I still picked up O4 on my first look on the FY18 board. Page 47 of the Community Brief lists what is valued for IP's.

Anyways, after you finish your IP basic you go on the national NIFR MOB list that is published monthly. It is ordered by Rank and Pay Entry Base Date (PEBD). Folks who are prior enlisted typically bubble to the top of the list due to their PEBD. If you've MOB'd you go to the bottom of the list. If you are in a grouping of folks all of whom who have MOB'd, you are ordered by your IMS date.

Our O6 IP leaders always hem and haw about getting your IP Basic done as fast as possible even though you have 36 months per instruction. I feel like they want you to finish fast so they will have more people on the MOB list. If they want more people on the list, then they would change the qualification timeline in the instruction.

There is zero incentive to finishing it in lightning speed. Remember, from O1 - O2 (4 years) you are an automatic "P" on your FITREP. Finishing your IP basic in 18 months is not going to get you anywhere from a promotion standpoint. No one cares that you finished your IP Basic "at twice the required rate." Page 47 of the Community Brief states that attainment of qualification is a valued achievement, not "finishing it ahead of your peers."

At any rate, there are numerous variables to MOB'ing. Timing (i.e., what is happening around the world) is one and the economy (most MOB's have numerous volunteers) is another. Also, MOB'ing is no guarantee that you will promote, even though "completion of an IA" tour is listed as one of the valued achievements. It is but one of the achievements that are valued but sometimes I feel like our leadership makes it sound like if you do not MOB then good luck getting selected. It's b.s.

View attachment 19773

Thanks a lot for the detailed response. I really appreciate it. I'm looking to MOB once I qual (EDO) in about 5 years, especially as an in-between jobs opportunity.

 

[bubblehead]

Thanks a lot for the detailed response. I really appreciate it. I'm looking to MOB once I qual (EDO) in about 5 years, especially as an in-between jobs opportunity.

No prob. Read your Community Values section of that powerpoint for what the EDO community values.

I looked at it myself, and there is nothing on there about valuing an IA/MOB tour. Make sure you discuss raising your hand for a MOB with a senior EDO leader to ensure you are doing what is best for your career as your community may value an ADSW to a SURGEMAN or other related facility versus a MOB to the sandbox.

Not saying this is true in your case. Back when I was an 1835, I had some colleagues who only wanted to "play". That is, they wanted to do "cool" stuff all the time. In this time, they ignored the other things that the community valued from a promotion perspective. Specifically, the MT&E/Ops part. Man, Train, and Equip, and Operations This translates to Dept head roles in a Reserve unit as the ADMIN or TRAINING or OPS officer. The folks in this scenario scoffed at those and had no interest, because, they wanted to "play." Net net.. It came back to bite some of them.

 

[bryanteagle6]

oh the waiting game! I hope everyone got their package together and sent to the board. I wonder how many made it?!

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

No prob. Read your Community Values section of that powerpoint for what the EDO community values.

I looked at it myself, and there is nothing on there about valuing an IA/MOB tour. Make sure you discuss raising your hand for a MOB with a senior EDO leader to ensure you are doing what is best for your career as your community may value an ADSW to a SURGEMAN or other related facility versus a MOB to the sandbox.

Not saying this is true in your case. Back when I was an 1835, I had some colleagues who only wanted to "play". That is, they wanted to do "cool" stuff all the time. In this time, they ignored the other things that the community valued from a promotion perspective. Specifically, the MT&E/Ops part. Man, Train, and Equip, and Operations This translates to Dept head roles in a Reserve unit as the ADMIN or TRAINING or OPS officer. The folks in this scenario scoffed at those and had no interest, because, they wanted to "play." Net net.. It came back to bite some of them.

Good point. You're probably right about SURGEMAIN and related units and facilities, but at the same time, I'm usually told the "sandbox" is the place for reserve EDO MOBs. While MOBs to Afghanistan aren't uncommon, I assume there's a bit of scaremongering at play, especially as I hear about other MOBs CONUS at NAVSEA/SPAWAR sites and in non-"sandbox" OCONUS locations. I'm in the process of finding out where I'd be able to serve best. Whether it's at NSWC Crane, SPAWAR, or playing full-time EDO part-time infantry in Afghanistan or whenever the next Iraq War happens, it's all good to me.

When you mention your colleagues who wanted to "play", what do you mean exactly? Like they'd take a MOB to Germany to chill and drink good beer lagers?

 

[bubblehead]

Good point. You're probably right about SURGEMAIN and related units and facilities, but at the same time, I'm usually told the "sandbox" is the place for reserve EDO MOBs.

Interesting as "Completion of an IA" tour is not listed as a "valued achievement" in the EDO Community Brief. If you have the opportunity to speak with your community manager, usually an O6, I would do so.

I assume there's a bit of scaremongering at play

That is my experience and usually comes from now senior officers who were in the Reserve right after 9/11 when practically everyone was MOB'd. It's almost like a, "I did it, why have you not

When you mention your colleagues who wanted to "play", what do you mean exactly? Like they'd take a MOB to Germany to chill and drink good beer lagers?

By play, I mean they were more interested and focused on doing "ops" and "fun stuff" and ignored the things that are important to being a Naval Officer and for promotion.

 

[bryanteagle6]

random observation: It seems the CW IP selects stay around on AW and help contribute but our INTEL ppl vanish?!

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

Interesting as "Completion of an IA" tour is not listed as a "valued achievement" in the EDO Community Brief. If you have the opportunity to speak with your community manager, usually an O6, I would do so.


That is my experience and usually comes from now senior officers who were in the Reserve right after 9/11 when practically everyone was MOB'd. It's almost like a, "I did it, why have you not


By play, I mean they were more interested and focused on doing "ops" and "fun stuff" and ignored the things that are important to being a Naval Officer and for promotion.

What's interesting is an AC EDO O-6 told me the EDO community utilizes reserve officers well whereas IWC underutilizes its reserve officers, despite the required IA tour. I don't know how much truth there is to that regarding IWC, but if you think about it, reserve EDOs have something most active EDOs don't have: lots of industry experience, which adds good value. When you've been in the trenches and engineered and developed projects, it can give you a lot more perspective, experience, and understanding than just being a program manager type. So why does the community like to send its reserve officers on reconstruction projects in a steadily failing conflict in Afghanistan or an expeditionary base in Djibouti? That's something I've been in the process of figuring out.

I'm finding out more and more what the real deal is. Like I've been told computer sci/eng folks are rare unicorns in the community while SPAWAR is this increasingly important systems command that does lots of "magic". It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together, but if COMNAVRESFOR decides I'd be better placed in Kandahar than in Norfolk or Yokosuka, then Kandahar it is.

random observation: It seems the CW IP selects stay around on AW and help contribute but our INTEL ppl vanish?!

They're probably busy mastering the Art of PowerPoint.

 

[Hair Warrior]

What's interesting is an AC EDO O-6 told me the EDO community utilizes reserve officers well whereas IWC underutilizes its reserve officers, despite the required IA tour.

Huh? Got any data supporting this?

I don't know how much truth there is to that regarding IWC, but if you think about it, reserve EDOs have something most active EDOs don't have: lots of industry experience, which adds good value. When you've been in the trenches and engineered and developed projects, it can give you a lot more perspective, experience, and understanding than just being a program manager type.

Active duty have 10-15x more fleet experience than reserve. (Two days a month versus thirty.) Non prior service DCO reservists who fail to remain humble in that regard are doing themselves a disservice.

So why does the community like to send its reserve officers on reconstruction projects in a steadily failing conflict in Afghanistan or an expeditionary base in Djibouti? That's something I've been in the process of figuring out.

The Navy Reserve has picked up the tab for “sandbox” deployments at a rate disproportionately higher to active duty Navy.

There are a lot of reasons for this. Some simple, some complex. Part of this is chasing funding and/or demonstrating value. Same same. We’ve had decades of war. Congress and our fellow DoD members notice who does their part and who doesn’t. Active duty Navy are haze gray and underway 24-7-52. They are already doing a shit ton, and stretching to meet mission. Going to harsh land environments is a way for the Navy reserve to also pitch in and do their part, too.

But at a basic level, if you pull an active duty sailor off a CRUDES or from a shipyard to go to the sandbox, you have to backfill them anyway in their old billet. It’s easier to take a reserve sailor from their day job and mob them to the sandbox. Then you’re only filling one vacancy once, not a domino string of vacant billets.

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

Huh? Got any data supporting this?

I don't, which is why I said "I don't know how much truth there is to that regarding IWC". Officers, junior and senior, will say what they will. I've been told so many rumors and so much bad gouge over the last year plus, finding out the reality and the truth is often a task of its own.

Active duty have 10-15x more fleet experience than reserve. (Two days a month versus thirty.) Non prior service DCO reservists who fail to remain humble in that regard

I make no claim there's any replacement for fleet experience. Do not worry, I am humble about this. I'm simply stating things from the perspective I've heard of some officers within the community which was in regard to my point in my prior post that RC EDOs complement and augment the community, and to now clarify, not outdoing or replacing (which is absurd). It's probably a big reason why the active EDO community likes its reserve officers. They offer a form of augmentation and experience in a highly technical space relative to the AC you won't find in many other communities. I can also certainly tell you getting shot at in the sandbox doesn't count for anything, so I make no claim there counting for experience either. But when you tell an officer with an electrical engineering background about chip and hardware project lifecycles and you're blowing their mind on so many different ways, it's hard to say industry experience is not incredibly beneficial in certain highly professional areas of the military, especially those that dabble in the realm of engineering, science, and technology.

For example, the Army is heavily emphasizing and relying extensively on recruiting industry professionals into its Cyber command, because they know those infosec professionals, software engineers, data scientists, etc. bring a wealth of knowledge, experience, and industry knowhow that the Army absolutely needs and can by no means field organically, even creating a fast commissioning program usually only reserved for medical and chaplain and commissioning at a higher rank. Why is that? Because CyBOLC is nothing compared to years of professional industry experience in a highly technical professional area. Some say the Army is backwards, but for what it's worth they've been leading the charge in the realm of cyber. Hell, the command was established in late 2010 and I remember being recruited for it almost as early as then.

The Navy Reserve has picked up the tab for “sandbox” deployments at a rate disproportionately higher to active duty Navy. Part of this is chasing funding and/or demonstrating value. Same same. We’ve had decades of war. Congress and our fellow DoD members notice who does their part and who doesn’t.

There are a lot of reasons for this. Some simple, some complex. But essentially, if you pull an active duty sailor off a CRUDES or from a shipyard to go to the sandbox, you have to backfill them anyway in their old billet. It’s easier to take a reserve sailor from their day job and mob them to the sandbox. Then you’re only filling one vacancy once, not a domino string of vacant billets.

It makes a lot of sense, certainly. I have some experience with Arabic language and culture(s) (and for some reason that was put on my APSR even though the EDO community has no special no need for people to speak anything other than English), so if they're looking for a more "cultured" touch in the "sandbox", sending me to Afghanistan would be silly when Bahrain, Kuwait, Jordan, possibly Iraq are all potential options. If you're going to make my life suck, at least do it in the way most beneficial for Navy and US goals.

 

[bubblehead]

It makes a lot of sense, certainly. I have some experience with Arabic language and culture(s) (and for some reason that was put on my APSR even though the EDO community has no special no need for people to speak anything other than English)...

Uhm, nor does the Reserve Intel community. I continued to be baffled by Officer recruiters for DCO touting to candidates how important it is to have "language skills." In my years in the Reserve Intel community I never witnessed any use of the language abilities of the Intel officers I knew. And these were folks who were fluent Farsi, Chinese, etc. The Intel community brief even has "Critical language skills" abilities listed as a valued achievement prior to O4.

 

[bryanteagle6]

sorry im confused sculpin - are you on this IWC DCO board or are you waiting on an EDO board?