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NEWS UAV 'Combat' Flight Time?!

D

Deleted member 24525

Guest
All in all, who gives a shit if their time is coded differently for combat or not? The total flight time doesn’t count for shit anyway. It’s not like you’re competing against these guys for anything. Their service doesn’t weaken yours...And a dude in a predator in Vegas still has more kills than an EP-3 flying over Afghanistan anyway, so who gives a shit?
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
All in all, who gives a shit if their time is coded differently for combat or not? The total flight time doesn’t count for shit anyway. It’s not like you’re competing against these guys for anything. Their service doesn’t weaken yours...And a dude in a predator in Vegas still has more kills than an EP-3 flying over Afghanistan anyway, so who gives a shit?

Call it professional curiosity.
 
D

Deleted member 24525

Guest
“I went home that night, and I knew what I did,” said Evan. “I think to the outside community, something like this will give a sense of perspective.”

I think I got a different perspective than what Evans intended.

There is a fear that exists when you’re in a combat zone, no doubt. But 90% of those in a combat zone are never put in a position where they’re witnessing death or where their life is on the line anyway. That 90% have never had to kill anyone.
Whereas 90% of drone operators have killed people in “combat”.
They kill a lot of fucking people -and killing isn’t an easy thing to do...regardless of the method being used. Read “on Killing” by LT Col Dave Grossman he goes into a lot of depth of the psychology of killing someone. Pretty damn interesting.
Lastly-I think it’d be worse facing your wife and kids after a day of killing then it would be going back to the FOB
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
There is a fear that exists when you’re in a combat zone, no doubt. But 90% of those in a combat zone are never put in a position where they’re witnessing death or where their life is on the line anyway. That 90% have never had to kill anyone.
Whereas 90% of drone operators have killed people in “combat”.
They kill a lot of fucking people -and killing isn’t an easy thing to do...regardless of the method being used. Read “on Killing” by LT Col Dave Grossman he goes into a lot of depth of the psychology of killing someone. Pretty damn interesting.
Lastly-I think it’d be worse facing your wife and kids after a day of killing then it would be going back to the FOB
If we are talking Air Medal-ish types of awards, than your 90% figure is pretty far off in some communities. Most of our Medevac and Apache pilots who have deployed have killed someone or loaded someone dying into the back of their aircraft. Depending on the deployment, I would guess 25-50% have been shot at. Air Assault ring route guys might get closer to your 90% figure.

I understand the PTSD thing. Our unit transitioned from Apaches to Medevac H-60s, so we have guys in our unit who have done both. Some could handle the killing. Some could handle the blood and guts of medevac. Some couldn't. We get guys who have never left the FOB with PTSD. Resiliency is not their strong point. But are these PTSD awards or put-yourself-in-physical-danger awards? Traditionally they have been considered the latter. It's easy to see why we don't give out mental health Purple Hearts. So we give Air Medals with R devices.

The going home thing. Maybe the mental transition IS difficult for the remote pilot. Is it more difficult than going back to a CHU and getting rocketed or mortared? Ehhh. Probably not. Probably only someone who has experienced this both in person and remotely could say for sure which is worse. I've got to put my money that doing it up close and personal is going to be worse. But again, PTSD award or put-yourself-in-danger award?

I'm not heartless and I am not saying remote pilots don't deserve something. I'm just of the opinion it shouldn't be the same something for those who put themselves in danger. The "R" seems to be a decent attempt to fix that. It's the "Air Medal" part that doesn't sit as well with me.
 

Hotdogs

I don’t care if I hurt your feelings
pilot
If we are talking Air Medal-ish types of awards, than your 90% figure is pretty far off in some communities. Most of our Medevac and Apache pilots who have deployed have killed someone or loaded someone dying into the back of their aircraft. Depending on the deployment, I would guess 25-50% have been shot at. Air Assault ring route guys might get closer to your 90% figure.

I understand the PTSD thing. Our unit transitioned from Apaches to Medevac H-60s, so we have guys in our unit who have done both. Some could handle the killing. Some could handle the blood and guts of medevac. Some couldn't. We get guys who have never left the FOB with PTSD. Resiliency is not their strong point. But are these PTSD awards or put-yourself-in-physical-danger awards? Traditionally they have been considered the latter. It's easy to see why we don't give out mental health Purple Hearts. So we give Air Medals with R devices.

The going home thing. Maybe the mental transition IS difficult for the remote pilot. Is it more difficult than going back to a CHU and getting rocketed or mortared? Ehhh. Probably not. Probably only someone who has experienced this both in person and remotely could say for sure which is worse. I've got to put my money that doing it up close and personal is going to be worse. But again, PTSD award or put-yourself-in-danger award?

I'm not heartless and I am not saying remote pilots don't deserve something. I'm just of the opinion it shouldn't be the same something for those who put themselves in danger. The "R" seems to be a decent attempt to fix that. It's the "Air Medal" part that doesn't sit as well with me.

There have been MC and non-aviation personnel who have gotten air medals for doing things not related to manipulating the controls or crew station of an aircraft. I think the R device is exactly what is needed. No need to create another badge or ribbon. Lastly, I know assault dudes who have gotten air medals for simply running PMC into theater a bunch of times and Cobra/Huey dudes for simply bagging the requisite amount of hours in country without firing a shot. It’s for achievement while participating in aerial flight. It doesnt say anything about being in the aircraft. I’ll let the sea lawyers what “participation” actually means but generally speaking I see no reason to create another medal for it. It’s bad enough they’ve got thier own wings now.
 
D

Deleted member 24525

Guest
If we are talking Air Medal-ish types of awards, than your 90% figure is pretty far off in some communities. Most of our Medevac and Apache pilots who have deployed have killed someone or loaded someone dying into the back of their aircraft. Depending on the deployment, I would guess 25-50% have been shot at. Air Assault ring route guys might get closer to your 90% figure.

I understand the PTSD thing. Our unit transitioned from Apaches to Medevac H-60s, so we have guys in our unit who have done both. Some could handle the killing. Some could handle the blood and guts of medevac. Some couldn't. We get guys who have never left the FOB with PTSD. Resiliency is not their strong point. But are these PTSD awards or put-yourself-in-physical-danger awards? Traditionally they have been considered the latter. It's easy to see why we don't give out mental health Purple Hearts. So we give Air Medals with R devices.

The going home thing. Maybe the mental transition IS difficult for the remote pilot. Is it more difficult than going back to a CHU and getting rocketed or mortared? Ehhh. Probably not. Probably only someone who has experienced this both in person and remotely could say for sure which is worse. I've got to put my money that doing it up close and personal is going to be worse. But again, PTSD award or put-yourself-in-danger award?

I'm not heartless and I am not saying remote pilots don't deserve something. I'm just of the opinion it shouldn't be the same something for those who put themselves in danger. The "R" seems to be a decent attempt to fix that. It's the "Air Medal" part that doesn't sit as well with me.
I’m not talking about medals. I don’t think they should get air medals, I think something separate is appropriate...and has already been deemed so.
Meaning the question has been answered and silly to argue.
I’m talking about the viewpoint that what they’re doing is diminutive and without affects to both the benefit of the military and harmful to themselves
it’s bad enough they’ve got thier own wings now.
Why? They’re unrestricted line officers. A SWO who sits in an admin office on a ship gets a device, as does a VQ NFO in the back of a plane. I don’t disagree about a medal...but if we’re giving IDC an intel warfare devices than these dudes should certainly get some. How many people have you killed? I’ll bet it’s far less than them.
 
D

Deleted member 24525

Guest
Uh . . . no, nice try though.

What’s your point? “NO ...NICE TRY” how about an intelligent response.
They’re not pilots, so what. But they’re doing more shit than most of us...especially VQ NFOs
 

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
What’s your point? “NO ...NICE TRY” how about an intelligent response.
They’re not pilots, so what. But they’re doing more shit than most of us...especially VQ NFOs
You’re an idiot. SWO’s earn their warfare device just like you do, as do VQ NFO’s. If you think your 1310 designator makes you “more” special that the two examples you cited, then, I say again, you’re an idiot.
 
D

Deleted member 24525

Guest
You’re an idiot. SWO’s earn their warfare device just like you do, as do VQ NFO’s. If you think your 1310 designator makes you “more” special that the two examples you cited, then, I say again, you’re an idiot.

you think UAV guys don’t earn their wings? You think they’re just handed out like candy?
You’re the idiot if you think that’s the case.
And I’m a 1310 arguing that they deserve wings-aka proving I’m not “more special”...so nice try.
 

Hotdogs

I don’t care if I hurt your feelings
pilot
I’m not talking about medals. I don’t think they should get air medals, I think something separate is appropriate...and has already been deemed so.
Meaning the question has been answered and silly to argue.
I’m talking about the viewpoint that what they’re doing is diminutive and without affects to both the benefit of the military and harmful to themselves

Why? They’re unrestricted line officers. A SWO who sits in an admin office on a ship gets a device, as does a VQ NFO in the back of a plane. I don’t disagree about a medal...but if we’re giving IDC an intel warfare devices than these dudes should certainly get some. How many people have you killed? I’ll bet it’s far less than them.

If you’re aircrew and fly an aircraft you should have wings. If you sit at a station on the deck, you shouldn’t. Wings = Fly. It’s pretty simple.
The Navy and more specifically the USAF’s penchant for everyone having Boy Scout badges is starting bleed into the Corps and it’s not required. Same deal for MARSOC. Not required and I’ve literally heard those guys say one of the only reasons they have it is to have credibility when working amongst other services.

Since you want to bring body counts into the equation... why does that qualify one to wear wings? I know plenty of Marines who have killed the enemy but do not have a warfare device.
 
D

Deleted member 24525

Guest
If you’re aircrew and fly an aircraft you should have wings. If you sit at a station on the deck, you shouldn’t. Wings = Fly. It’s pretty simple.
The Navy and more specifically the USAF’s penchant for everyone having Boy Scout badges is starting bleed into the Corps and it’s not required. Same deal for MARSOC. Not required and I’ve literally heard those guys say one of the only reasons they have it is to have credibility when working amongst other services.

Since you want to bring body counts into the equation... why does that qualify one to wear wings? I know plenty of Marines who have killed the enemy but do not have a warfare device.
Their wings aren’t the same as yours-so who seriously gives a flying fuck!
It doesn’t make you less of an aviator or “warfighter”
 
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