-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Helo loses tailwheel at Wall Street helo pad
- Thread starter wink
- Start date
- Status
Sure, it could happen to anyone, but it is not very likely to happen to most of us that follow good CRM.But there certainly are plenty of Fox/Hotel guys who turned Sierra. That being said, they've had a few years to figure out the tail wheel situation. Feet aren't *supposed* to hang out unless you're ferrying around SF types. Does it happen otherwise? Absolutely. I wouldn't put a ton of blame on the AW with his feet hanging. There was another AW on the other side without his feet hanging out and, undoubtedly, there was a verbal agreement between the two AWs that the feet-dangler would be responsible for the right side. Feet dangler would have had to stick his head down under the aircraft to see that shit coming. Feet dangling was not a causal factor.
Sometimes shit just happens. Could have happened to any of us.
There is a learning curve when landing with the tailwheel in a different location, but the taxi characteristics are not very different. So who regularly taxis a 60B or 60R with the tail over an obstacles? Not me. Blaming this on a transition to 60S from 60B/F/H/R really carries little credibility.
Barring an investigation revealing a T/R or pedal malfunction, this was poor piloting and poor CRM. I'm teaching ACT-E tomorrow (if we aren't shut down) and will probably use this video as an additional discussion item. I hope that at the completion of my class I have educated the "any of us" people to the extent that I can say it could happen to none of us.
There's really no where to taxi to on the CV. On a standard recovery between cycles there will be 4 helos on the waist hot pumping and/or crew swapping. And if you're shutting down they're going to have to fold and stuff you anyways to get you where they want you. Besides, I imagine a spinning rotor gives the willies to any fixed wing dudes nearby. They don't want that abomination TAXIING near them. End of the day its only a should not though.
Based on Google Earth scale the pier where those spots are is approximately 100 feet wide. No way this happens if you taxi down the center between the spots on either side. He could have spun around in a complete pivot from the center line of the pier, no problem.
Well, we are shut down. Let's all go to work without pay now.
I'm drafting my letter this weekend. Two, actually. One for me, and one for real. I've had enough, and the shit is getting worse.
Yay, drill is off for the weekend! Boo, drill is off for the weekend! For full timers, the PITA is changing gears and prepping for drill. The damage is done, so to speak, and now we get no ACT-E annual requirement done, no physical fitness test (which many need for their promotion packages, etc..), no Bambi Bucket training, no RL progression for someone who has to drive in from Miami, etc.. The technicians don't get paid and may or may not get back pay.Well, we are shut down. Let's all go to work without pay now.
I'm drafting my letter this weekend. Two, actually. One for me, and one for real. I've had enough, and the shit is getting worse.
Not to turn this into a Shutdown Thread, but the BS that is put out about it not affecting the military is irritating. The amount of planning, shuffling, and screwing over of our people so aircraft don't red X on calendar inspections or 14 day runups goes totally unknown by the public and especially the ones in Washington causing this.
So to bring this back on topic, no ACT-E training for our aircrew. There are a lot of useless training requirements we have, but this is not one of them. This training saves lives and money. The last time I did this training we used the Destin accident. I was genuinely surprised that some of the material and concepts in that scenario were unknown to many of our pilots. So now I read the story about the tailwheel incident where the reporter compared it to running over a curb with your car. If military aviators are allowed to make similar cavalier comparisons (like above), we're going to lose more people and aircraft.
I submit a new call sign for the pilot: "Pedals" It almost sounds cool, but isn't.
I am sorry to hear this. I hate to hear when a guy is motivated to leave because of BS like the shutdown. I totally understand, mind you. Have a SWO buddy that jumped out of his rack for a mid watch one night into 3-4 inches of fuel flooding his stateroom. He wrote his letter that morning after watch when he found out how it happened and the attitude about it. People get out for all sorts of reasons, but it should be personal financial, family or lifestyle reasons that are simply incompatible with the military. In cases like yours it is self inflicted by leadership, civilian in this case, and preventable. Good luck whatever you decide to do.Well, we are shut down. Let's all go to work without pay now.
I'm drafting my letter this weekend. Two, actually. One for me, and one for real. I've had enough, and the shit is getting worse.
Holy shit, I have to hear this story. Forget the annoyance, that’s straight up dangerous! How did that much fuel get in there?
If there’s a fuel tank sounding tube in or near that space, it’s pretty easy, especially if the guy on duty isn’t paying attention. Which has been known to happen. There was a sounding tube in the aux/JO overflow berthing on FFGs. Even when they didn’t overtop the tube (during an unrep, for instance), the space reeked of JP for at least 24 hours. Good quality rest.
Thanks, man. I was drunk and angry last night.
The truth is, I've been thinking about this for a while, for all the reasons we routinely bring up on this site and more. I still feel incredibly lucky when I get to strap into a jet and go fly, but those days are becoming less frequent. I don't "want" to get out, I want the Navy and the government to be what they were when I signed up. But those days are gone, sadly. Technically, I can't even drop my letter yet, since I have about two years of obligated service left. Could I change my mind in the mean time? Of course. But it'll be there if I ultimately decide to reach for it.
Last edited:
That was it. A sounding tube on an old Adams class destroyer. It was indicative of training and leadership issues on his ship and in the SWO community in the early 80s.
Honest question to you and all the other who seem to express a similar sentiment about USN (and any number of things in life); has the institution changed or have you changed in your personal maturity/perspectives? Same question could be asked for America and any number of things that we’ve all used the word “they don’t make em like they used to.”
Clearly the Navy has changed. Probably a lot more so in the last few years then in the years previous. The question isn't has it changed so much as has the change been for the better. Many things about the Navy are better today than they were in my day. But then again, many things about the Navy in my day were better than it is now. Knowing what I know about today's Navy from nieces and nephews on active duty, I do think it was better in my day. And I still got out. The long term trend is clear. Less flying, less independent authority, more social engineering, more BS training mandates, etc. You all know the more short short-term issues.
Kind of looked to me like he ‘jogged’ left before starting the right turn. Is that the normal way to taxi into a tight turn? Was that even that tight of a turn to make?
We're probably starting to get into the realm of supposition here (and perhaps in earlier posts as well). Since it's clear this is a mishap, let's not get too into the weeds of breaking down what happened and what should have happened.
- Status