USMC TACAIR future

[whitesoxnation]

I'm wondering what people think career tracks are going to look like for guys currently in the Hornet / Harrier until their platform is completely phased out by the F-35.

I think the current perception is that the USMC is hell bent on standing the F-35 up ASAP, even if it means that the guys flying Hornets / Harriers today have to suffer. I understand that decision given limitations inherent to the Hornet / Harrier when compared to current/emerging threats, and that leadership has determined it more prudent to invest in a new platform than current platforms. I know a lot of guys are saying to jump ship on the Hornet and get into the F-35 ASAP, and that getting too many quals or going to a school in the Hornet will prevent you from doing the same in the F-35, thus hurting your career. Is there any truth to this? When is the right time to transition? How do you guys see the health of current platforms fairing as the F-35 continues to be stood up?

My overall goal is to stay tactically relevant in an operational grey jet for as long as possible.

 

[zippy]

I'm wondering what people think career tracks are going to look like for guys currently in the Hornet / Harrier until their platform is completely phased out by the F-35.

I think the current perception is that the USMC is hell bent on standing the F-35 up ASAP, even if it means that the guys flying Hornets / Harriers today have to suffer. I understand that decision given limitations inherent to the Hornet / Harrier when compared to current/emerging threats, and that leadership has determined it more prudent to invest in a new platform than current platforms. I know a lot of guys are saying to jump ship on the Hornet and get into the F-35 ASAP, and that getting too many quals or going to a school in the Hornet will prevent you from doing the same in the F-35, thus hurting your career. Is there any truth to this? When is the right time to transition? How do you guys see the health of current platforms fairing as the F-35 continues to be stood up?

My overall goal is to stay tactically relevant in an operational grey jet for as long as possible.

I'm not convinced "ASAP" has ever been part of the equation.

Expect the current health of the Hornet and Harrier fleets to get worse before they're phased out.

After watching a few on the Navy side, transition timelines are a crapshoot...I know several first tour guys in the prowler community that are applying for F-35 as soon as they can. Others took the sundown opportunity to transition to Hornets, and as a result have no idea if the F-35 will ever be in the cards for them.

If you want to transition, apply for it. With the way the Marine Corps "manages" its pilots, the timing of your transition likely won't make a whole lot of sense, if you ever get it.

 

[Renegade One]

I'm wondering what people think career tracks are going to look like for guys currently in the Hornet / Harrier until their platform is completely phased out by the F-35.

Probably about the same as the folks who transitioned from F-8 to F-4 to F-14 or F/A-18 in almost any combination, or VA to VFA (pick your platform, or legacy VAQ to "new" VAQ…in other words, basically unimpacted from a career standpoint. Some will transition early; some may not transition until DH or CO/XO timeframe. True…going to NFWS in Hornets would qualify you for life as a patch-wearer, but I guess I have a big "so what?" forming in my mind.

Will the legacy stuff be underfunded and die an ugly death? Maybe. But they'll probably go out in reasonable style, as have all others that I can think of, and the old platform patches will be cherished for what they represent in the timeframe when that platform was king. "Well, back in MY day…"

 

[Brett327]

in other words, basically unimpacted from a career standpoint

There are broad and sometimes unforeseen career implications to every transition - even the relatively well-executed ones. Also, the Marines do business very differently than USN, and I think this will be one of those cases.

reasonable style

Ask the Marine VMFA folks if they're reasonably styling right now.

 

[Swanee]

the Marines do business very differently than USN

While I can't speak to the future of VMFA and Marine Tacair, I can absolutely attest to this. Going through the process I went through, many times I was told - "Well, if this were the Navy things would be much different".

FWIW, my buddies who have gone for transition boards and were not selected all say something similar- they are essentially black balled for wanting to leave their community. The grow "where you're planted" mentality of TBS selection seems to have permeated much of the Marine Corps. You're an asshole if you want to leave.

I'm also seeing this in my community- who wouldn't want to go fly the Reaper and kill shitheads from half way around the world- as opposed to stick it out in an underfunded, undertrained, and underequiped community facing a serious manpower shortage and with a relatively crummy UAS? Yet those guys who try for a transition all get the same disgusted look from both peers and senior leadership - and are treated like crap for giving up on everyone else.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I'm wondering what people think career tracks are going to look like for guys currently in the Hornet / Harrier until their platform is completely phased out by the F-35.

I think the current perception is that the USMC is hell bent on standing the F-35 up ASAP, even if it means that the guys flying Hornets / Harriers today have to suffer. I understand that decision given limitations inherent to the Hornet / Harrier when compared to current/emerging threats, and that leadership has determined it more prudent to invest in a new platform than current platforms. I know a lot of guys are saying to jump ship on the Hornet and get into the F-35 ASAP, and that getting too many quals or going to a school in the Hornet will prevent you from doing the same in the F-35, thus hurting your career. Is there any truth to this? When is the right time to transition? How do you guys see the health of current platforms fairing as the F-35 continues to be stood up?

My overall goal is to stay tactically relevant in an operational grey jet for as long as possible.

When I was making the decision to "stay tactically relevant" or GTFO, the main detractors for the F-35 transition in my view was the top heavy nature of that community and the fact that they don't do anything that sounds fun to me. Being a captain in a squadron full of patch wearing majors sounds like hell. Blowing shit up is cool too and being stuck doing AMRAAM make believe and level lays sounds comparatively lame.

Both of those things are changing though. Soon F-35 squadrons will look more like a normal squadron, manning wise. For harrier guys the choice is pretty clear, make the switch. The hornet will be around a long time and miramar is supposed to be the last to switch, so there's that.

 

[BarrettRC8]

When I was making the decision to "stay tactically relevant" or GTFO, the main detractors for the F-35 transition in my view was the top heavy nature of that community and the fact that they don't do anything that sounds fun to me. Being a captain in a squadron full of patch wearing majors sounds like hell. Blowing shit up is cool too and being stuck doing AMRAAM make believe and level lays sounds comparatively lame.

Both of those things are changing though. Soon F-35 squadrons will look more like a normal squadron, manning wise. For harrier guys the choice is pretty clear, make the switch. The hornet will be around a long time and miramar is supposed to be the last to switch, so there's that.

Treetop Flyer is right - The F-35 is super top heavy currently, but that'll change with time. I have buddies who have made the transition, and the two who are in the one "fleet" squadron are not really enjoying life at the moment.

As for AMRAAM make believe - The only guys not playing make believe are in Centcomm... Of all the make believe we do, and it's a lot, AMRAAM make believe is by far the most fun.

Good point - As everyone roughly my time frame, I've had multiple chances to put in a transition package. I don't want to. I've wanted to fly the F-18 since I realized I'd never be able to fly the Tomcat. I'm happy to finish up my time here, in Miramar, until I can polish my exit strategy.

 

[Randy Daytona]

While I can't speak to the future of VMFA and Marine Tacair, I can absolutely attest to this. Going through the process I went through, many times I was told - "Well, if this were the Navy things would be much different".

FWIW, my buddies who have gone for transition boards and were not selected all say something similar- they are essentially black balled for wanting to leave their community. The grow "where you're planted" mentality of TBS selection seems to have permeated much of the Marine Corps. You're an asshole if you want to leave.

I'm also seeing this in my community- who wouldn't want to go fly the Reaper and kill shitheads from half way around the world- as opposed to stick it out in an underfunded, undertrained, and underequiped community facing a serious manpower shortage and with a relatively crummy UAS? Yet those guys who try for a transition all get the same disgusted look from both peers and senior leadership - and are treated like crap for giving up on everyone else.

Not sure if you have seen, but thought you might have a better perspective than most of us.

THE DEMOCRATIZATION OF AIRPOWER: THE INSURGENT AND THE DRONE
T.X. HAMMES
OCTOBER 18, 2016

It seems clear to me that cheap commercial drones flying today can and, in the near future likely will, dramatically change the character of conflict between state and non-state actors. We have struggled for more than a decade to successfully hunt and disarm immobile IEDs. Drones mean IEDs no longer must be immobile. The next embedded clip shows that IEDs can now hunt you.

http://warontherocks.com/2016/10/the-democratization-of-airpower-the-insurgent-and-the-drone/

 

[Recovering LSO]

It's too bad that we don't have methods for manipulating the electromagnetic spectrum....

 

[Pags]

It's too bad that we don't have methods for manipulating the electromagnetic spectrum....

What are we, some sort of dark wizards?

 

[EODDave]

And arent the Marines having older Hornets from the boneyard being upgraded to C+'s? I'm fairly sure this is an ongoing program.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Firm Plans to Build Autonomous Huey Helicopters
http://www.defensetech.org/2016/11/11/autonomous-huey-helicopter/?comp=1199442010954&rank=0

U.S. Marines from Marine Light Attack Helicopter Squadron 369, operate a UH-1Y Huey on Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton during a training exercise on Camp Pendleton Calif., Nov. 4, 2016. Aurora Flight Science wants to build an autonomous Huey helicopter. (U.S. Marine Corps photo/Rhita Daniel)

 

[Brett327]

^^ Kind of off topic.

 

[phrogdriver]

As a -46 to -22 transition, I'd say to go to a legacy platform and get as many quals as you can there. If you're in a community full of senior guys, as the F-35 still is, you will be the assistant to the assistant to the soda mess officer. Get some time and good billets in a legacy platform and wait for the chaos to subside.

 

[whitesoxnation]

As a -46 to -22 transition, I'd say to go to a legacy platform and get as many quals as you can there. If you're in a community full of senior guys, as the F-35 still is, you will be the assistant to the assistant to the soda mess officer. Get some time and good billets in a legacy platform and wait for the chaos to subside.

That sounds awesome compared to having multiple ground jobs that on their own would be full time jobs... never mind being proficient and tactical or having a life.