Active USMC to Reserve Intel DCO

[jeff86]

Hi everyone,

First time poster here. I’m an active duty Gunnery Sergeant (E7) / Intel Specialist in the Marines. I am leaving active duty this summer at 12 years and transitioning into the IRR with the ultimate goal of obtaining a Intel DCO commission on the FY17 board. I am taking a job in the intelligence sector where I will be working closely with special operations forces. Have already made initial contact with an officer recruiter out of DC and I should be hearing back from the IDC in early March for an initial interview.

Background info:
- 30 years old
- 12 years active duty USMC, 4 years as an administrative specialist (couldn't get out of that job fast enough although it made me a boss at naval correspondence and DTS)/ marksmanship instructor and 8 years as an intelligence specialist.
- Currently enrolled in an international relations master’s program at American University School of International Service (in my first semester so no GPA yet, expected graduation date is May 2017)
- B.S., Political Science (GPA 3.57)
- Civilian job (starting in August) at an intelligence organization supporting special operations forces in an intel capacity
- Special operations designated, 2x SOF combat deployments, 1x conventional combat deployment. Numerous other smaller non-combat deployments and operational experience in roles ranging from foreign security force advising to humanitarian assistance / disaster relief.
- A bunch of military and IC intelligence courses, SERE, assorted combat and special ops courses (shoot/move/communicate stuff)
- 1x JCOM, 1x NAVCOM, 3x NAM, 1x Combat Action Ribbon
- Have letters of recommendation from a Navy O-4 defense attache, USMC O-5 intel officer, and a USMC O-3 special operations team commander.

I think the Navy would be a great choice for commissioning due to our shared naval heritage – doesn’t seem like the cultural gap would be too huge. I think serving as an Intel officer in the Reserves would have great synergy with my new civilian job and would let me keep a foot in the uniformed door. I almost joined the Navy 12 years ago and have always had a soft spot for it, and my father in law is a retired commander. I would also appreciate the opportunity to continue working with SOF, as that is my area of expertise. Unfortunately the Marine Corps doesn’t offer me the same opportunities for commissioning as the Navy does which is what has prompted me to pursue the package with the Navy. Would just like to solicit advice from those in the know to see how my package looks and if there is anything I can do to make it more competitive. Would also appreciate any advice from other Marines that have made a similar leap.

 

[fieldrat]

Would just like to solicit advice from those in the know to see how my package looks and if there is anything I can do to make it more competitive.

If you have quantifiable leadership experience, and what good Marine wouldn't, you need to showcase it with numbers/metrics/impact.

 

[unbroken]

I agree with fieldrat -- I was selected IDC this board, and during my interview they said before I submitted I needed to "quantify" leadership. This was difficult for me as I was previously serving as essentially a special assistant to a (very) senior USG official, which is sort of hard to quantify. But it's what they wanted, so I basically just wrote about how many people I was working with daily and the various capacities in which I'd led them.

So I am nit-picking here; in short I think you have a tremendous background and are a very solid candidate. But since you have some time to prepare, a few thoughts:

I think you should expect to be asked, given your prior experience in another branch, (1) Why the Navy, and (2) Why the reserves. I take your point about the shared Naval heritage, but honestly it doesn't sound entirely convincing when you could just do USMC OCS and commission as an officer in your own branch (I do realize their MOS allocations work differently and it's based on TBS rank, etc., but I'm not sure they'll be thinking in that context). I don't mean to say you are being disingenuous, but "Navy tradition" is probably the single most common response interviewers get. So I think you need to be very clear about why you would want to leave your own branch to do something different halfway through your career. You say you want to continue working with SOF, but I think their response will be, "well you already have SOF deployments in the Corps, why change?"

My recruiter told me that I really needed to have an interview and/or letter of rec from an 0-6 or higher to get picked up. Whether that is true all the time, I don't know, but since you are in DC and the network there is pretty strong, I would see if you can line something up. Ask the 0-5s you know if they can put you in touch with any 0-6's for an interview, or a reference letter. I ended up getting letters and interviews from a few folks I'd never even met before starting this process, and they were, I think, tremendously influential in my selection due to their positions within the Fleet, and the lengths they went to to introduce me to people who could help. So don't be afraid to cold email, etc.; I think you will find folks pretty receptive.

On a personal note, your comment about shared cultural heritage reminded me of an observations one of my cousin's, a USMC officer, told me a while ago: that when he was deployed in Iraq, he was surprised to find that the Navy officers with whom he interacted seemed to be most like USMC officers than those of any other branch. He said he assumed it would be the Army guys due to the ground element, but that the demeanor and professionalism was most similar across Navy and Marines. Here's to hoping you find the same!

Hope that was helpful, and thank you for your commitment to service.

 

[subreservist]

On a personal note, your comment about shared cultural heritage reminded me of an observations one of my cousin's, a USMC officer, told me a while ago: that when he was deployed in Iraq, he was surprised to find that the Navy officers with whom he interacted seemed to be most like USMC officers than those of any other branch. He said he assumed it would be the Army guys due to the ground element, but that the demeanor and professionalism was most similar across Navy and Marines. Here's to hoping you find the same!

Not sure if you are aware, but the USMC works under the Department of the Navy. On the active (or reserve on active) officer side, Navy and USMC options train together as midshipmen (although the Marine options still separate at some point to do "their" thing). Marines learn and use most of the Navy way of doing business and incorporate their "Semper Fi"-ness on top of that.

Surprising? Not so much...

 

[unbroken]

Not sure if you are aware, but the USMC works under the Department of the Navy. On the active (or reserve on active) officer side, Navy and USMC options train together as midshipmen (although the Marine options still separate at some point to do "their" thing). Marines learn and use most of the Navy way of doing business and incorporate their "Semper Fi"-ness on top of that.

Surprising? Not so much...

Why do men pedantically assume ignorance? Yes, I am fully aware of how the military is structured.

 

[fieldrat]

@unbroken, through which NRD did you apply, and for which designator were you selected?

 

[gaj29]

There are some big things hurting you. This is going to sound negative but i'm really trying to intentionally poke holes here to give you something to think about.

1) Your masters degree will not be complete when the board convenes and it is a liberal arts degree. liberal arts degrees automatically put you at a significant disadvantage because the Navy mandates the board select at least 60% STEM degrees, so you're automatically competing for one of the bottom 40% of the slots. Without the masters degree conferred, it is unlikely you'll get selected on this board, but you'll be somewhat competitive for the FY18 board.

2) Your letters of recommendation at those ranks just won't cut it. You need, the ranks of those recommending you need to be at a minimum O6, and preferably from the IDC. Most competitive applicants have LORs from admirals, senior officials from SECNAV or SECDEFs office, congressman, etc. I would recommend finding the 3 highest ranking people locally in your chain of command and ask them for LORs starting at the flag officer level and working down.

3) The absolute ruthlessness of competition shows in who got selected, and who did not, on the last several boards. This is the most competitive commissioning board of all military branches both active and reserve -- you're going up against guys with PhDs, law degrees, the same if not more prior service experience, critical languages, etc. Understand the realities of this board, and come up with a better answer to why you want to be a Naval officer than "naval tradition."

4) The fact that the Marine Corps DOES offer a reserve commissioning program with the same opportunities and will guarantee you your job in the reserves, really hurts you with this board. You're going to be asked on your interview why you don't commission in the Marine Corps. Clearly you've had a great career, so why not commission in the Marine Corps reserves? It's definitely not because of naval tradition, that's a crock. I'll tell you why Marines don't want to commission in the Marine Corps reserves and its because between OCS, TBS, and MOS school you're looking at damn near 2 years of active duty just for a reserve commission -- I understand why you wouldn't want to do that, but the board is going to seriously question your dedication.

Not trying to be negative here, but to give you some realities to think about. Very few people make it on the first board, if you don't make it, just finish your masters get more relevant experience in your civilian job and reapply. If I can punch holes in your package after this quick cursory look at your post, the board is going to turn it into swiss cheese. The age limit is 42 so you've got 12 more boards to take a chance at and persistence has paid off for many.

 

[Flash]

There are some big things hurting you. This is going to sound negative but i'm really trying to intentionally poke holes here to give you something to think about....This is the most competitive commissioning board of all military branches both active and reserve...the first board, if you don't make it, just finish your masters get more relevant experience in your civilian job and reapply. If I can punch holes in your package after this quick cursory look at your post, the board is going to turn it into swiss cheese. The age limit is 42 so you've got 12 more boards to take a chance at and persistence has paid off for many.

"Always with the negative waves Moriarity, always with the negative ways."

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

I disagree with the posters above, I feel the OP is an "above average" candidate. Yes, he doesn't have a STEM major but the fact he's had a highly successful career in the Marine Corps working in the intelligence field will help him out big time. Marines and Navy go to the same Intel schoolhouse in Dam Neck, VA and so this gentleman already has much of the training and experience (including combat operations) unmatched by non-military applicants.

Unlike SWO/Pilot boards where GPA/Major are key, these RC IDC boards are "whole person concept". I don't think his education is going to hurt him much. Not if he get kill the interviews and perhaps find some senior Intel Officers (Navy/Marine Corps) to write some rec letters, I do feel he has a solid chance of selection.

 

[Flash]

I disagree with the posters above, I feel the OP is an "above average" candidate. Yes, he doesn't have a STEM major but the fact he's had a highly successful career in the Marine Corps working in the intelligence field will help him out big time. Marines and Navy go to the same Intel schoolhouse in Dam Neck, VA and so this gentleman already has much of the training and experience (including combat operations) unmatched by non-military applicants....I do feel he has a solid chance of selection.

For the OP, I would take this input a lot more seriously than the others since this guy actually recruits/ed for a living. I would put the Intel DCO folks I have know into three main categories; 1- The prior, who had a good career enlisted and is usually a fine asset, 2- The civilian expert, who are usually pretty sharp but often not as service savvy as a prior at least in the beginning, 3- The politician, who works on the Hill or in the White House. You are a rare person who hits two of the three and would be a excellent candidate compared to the Intel DCO's I have served with. Drive on and best of luck!

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Similar to the "NAMI whammy" thread with folks jumping to conclusions, I think many folks are doing the same with the STEM majors. If you read the program authorizations, STEM majors are recommended. Not required, not highly preferred, just recommended. As such, many applicants/recruiters are using the STEM major as a filter to vet applicants. There's a reason the STEM major is at 60%, not 80-90-100%. The community and the board members know and realize there are going to be some very motivated/qualified applicants who might not have a STEM major. No way will they pass on someone who brings a ton to the IDC community but doesn't have a STEM major.

This is just my opinion/experience. @NavyOffRec can weigh in if I am missing something.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Similar to the "NAMI whammy" thread with folks jumping to conclusions, I think many folks are doing the same with the STEM majors. If you read the program authorizations, STEM majors are recommended. Not required, not highly preferred, just recommended. As such, many applicants/recruiters are using the STEM major as a filter to vet applicants. There's a reason the STEM major is at 60%, not 80-90-100%. The community and the board members know and realize there are going to be some very motivated/qualified applicants who might not have a STEM major. No way will they pass on someone who brings a ton to the IDC community but doesn't have a STEM major.

This is just my opinion/experience. @NavyOffRec can weigh in if I am missing something.

I also think the guy would be an above average applicant, I think a big factor with him will be the IDC panel interview as those go a long way. An applicant with a great degree and GPA won't go anywhere if the applicant doesn't get good scores from the panel interview.

The nice thing on IDC is they set the 60/40 to include the non stem guys. I am not sure how some of the designators view it now but I heard that some boards see "preferred" as required.

 

[jeff86]

All,

Greatly appreciate the feedback and candid responses. I hadn't fully considered the question of "Why commission in the Navy rather than the USMC" and will make sure I have a good answer come interview time. I'm already past the age cut-off for the USMC enlisted commissioning program (under 30) and would require a waiver - I also don't have a guarantee of getting an intelligence officer position if I commission with the USMC - it's all based on class performance and rankings and split into thirds. I would rather stay enlisted in the intelligence field and continue to mentor Marines in the reserves rather than commission and be put into a field I have no interest or talent in like logistics - that would be a disservice to myself and the Marines I'd be placed in charge of. Finally you guys hit the nail on the head that the amount of active duty time in the USMC required just to get my commission (or even a warrant officer program) is extremely high and definitely favors a young candidate right out of college, not someone transitioning off active duty into a very demanding civilian career.

One of the key things that attracted me to the Navy was the extensive use of reservists to support NSW and SOCOM- as I mentioned previously I have substantial experience and qualifications in the special operations realm and I would really like to be able to leverage those in the Reserves. The USMC does not integrate their reserve forces with special operations / MARSOC very well due to the small size and unique nature of our component, so a great deal of my operational background won't be utilized to it's maximum potential if I stay in the Marine Corps Reserve either as enlisted or even as an officer.

For where I'm at in my civilian career and personal life I think the Navy offers a much better fit and I'd be able to make an impact from day one with my experience and leadership ability. I consider myself a strong interviewer so I'm hoping to make a good impression with the IDC folks next month when they contact me for the initial interviews. I was also concerned about the lack of high ranking letters of recommendation - I may just be looking at it from a different perspective but I just don't feel like I know any high ranking officers well enough for them to honestly say whether I'd be a good officer which is why I focused on officers I've worked with closely who actually know me as a person and a leader. If the norm is a "fluff" LOR from extremely senior officials I think I could leverage my network to obtain some, as odious as that may seem. My plan is to hang out in the IRR for the rest of this year (will have plenty of active time before transitioning this summer) until the results of the FY17 board are released and if I'm selected switch over to the Navy and if passed reenlist in the USMC reserve and try again for FY18 and hope they approve my interservice transfer request if I am selected on a subsequent board. I think it's a tremendous opportunity and one that I'll keep working towards, and theoretically my package should continue to get stronger each year as I finish my degree and obtain more civilian intelligence experience.

 

[jason0231]

Hey Jeff,

Just wondering how your board went. As a former Marine 0231 who went DCO for Navy intel (with a 12-year detour in Army intel), I hope you crushed your board and are on your way. Reach out anytime with updates or questions.

S/F,

Jason

 

[Hair Warrior]

Ditto all the previous posters, esp. Rufio/ NavyOffRec.

The one thing I will add is: Set expectations that you won't get selected this time, then try again next year. If you get it on your first try, that's awesome.