Ship Photo of the Day

[Griz882]

Well, since we are talking Bismarck, we might as well mention the old “Stringbag,” the Fairey Swordfish. Despite having a top speed of a paultry 145mph and being obsolete when WWII started, she held the distinction of having caused the destruction of a greater tonnage of Axis shipping than any other Allied aircraft. Pretty impressive. As it happens, there is one for sale for the small sum of $595,000.

 

[Renegade One]

The Fairey Swordfish...held the distinction of having caused the destruction of a greater tonnage of Axis shipping than any other Allied aircraft.

Are you sure about this? Got a quick reference?

 

[Griz882]

Are you sure about this? Got a quick reference?

I have seen the reference in Ian Stott’s “The Fairey Swordfish Mks. I-IV” (Aircraft in Profile 212). Windsor, Berkshire, UK: Profile Publications, 1971 and a few other places. The metric of most successful is based by tons of shipping sunk or damaged beyond repair. By shipping the book includes military or mercant and includes submarines.

 

[Randy Daytona]

The second of the Nimitz class carriers, USS Dwight W. Eisenhower (CVN-69). Commissioned in 1977 to replace the Midway class USS Franklin D. Roosevelt, the Ike has supported operations all over the world, including Eagle Claw in 1980, the ill-fated rescue attempt of the hostages in Iran.

Length: 1,092 ft, Beam: 252 ft (Flight Deck), 134 ft (Overall), Displacement: 101,600 tons
Propulsion: 2 Westinghouse A4W reactors giving 30+ knots
90+ fixed wing and helicopters
Commissioned: 18 October 1977, Expected retirement: around 2029.

Dwight D. Eisenhower departs Norfolk for Operation Uphold Democracy in 1994.

Dwight D. Eisenhower (foreground) at Norfolk in 1985 alongside Nimitz, John F. Kennedy and America.

Explosive Ordnance Disposal Mobile Unit Six participates in Special Patrol Insertion/Extraction (SPIE) training session with Dwight D. Eisenhower

A French Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft conducts touch and go landings aboard Dwight D. Eisenhower during a coalition training exercise.

Dwight D. Eisenhower (background) on post maintenance qualifications in the Atlantic Ocean, meets up with Enterprise returning from a cruise to the Mediterranean and Persian Gulf in 2011

 

[Flash]

and a very heavy secondary anti-ship armament of 12 5.9" guns showed that the Bismarck was designed to fight in the rough seas and low visibility of the North Sea. In comparison, most US and British battleship had a dual purpose secondary armament.

The amount of damage the Bismarck sustained was tremendous before it was scuttled. Despite absorbing multiple hits from the British battleships King George V and Rodney as well as heavy cruisers, no shells penetrated the citadel. Good question of which was the most stout battleship in history, the Bismarck class from Germany or the Yamato class from Japan.

I would be wary of taking the German claims that scuttling sank the Bismarck instead of the torpedoes fired by the British cruisers, especially since so few of the German crew survived. Her discovery certainly hasn’t settleed the debate since folks from the different expeditions came to different conclusions, And no matter how well armored she was the Bismarck was disarmed by the Royal Navy before she sank, which would have happened scuttling or not.

As for which the stoutest battleship is, that is a theoretical exercise in futility especially since all 4 (+1) ships of the classes you mention are resting at the bottom of the sea as a result of enemy action. It pays to have air superiority and investing in AAA instead of more surface oriented secondary guns like the Germans decided to do. I do find it interesting that US battleships aren’t often mentioned in that debate, notably the USS South Dakota and beating she took at the Second Naval Battle of Guadalcanal where she even took a direct hit 14-inch shell hit on one of her 16-inch turret barbettes.

 

[Randy Daytona]

I would be wary of taking the German claims that scuttling sank the Bismarck instead of the torpedoes fired by the British cruisers, especially since so few of the German crew survived. Her discovery certainly hasn’t settleed the debate since folks from the different expeditions came to different conclusions, And no matter how well armored she was the Bismarck was disarmed by the Royal Navy before she sank, which would have happened scuttling or not.

As for which the stoutest battleship is, that is a theoretical exercise in futility especially since all 4 (+1) ships of the classes you mention are resting at the bottom of the sea as a result of enemy action. It pays to have air superiority and investing in AAA instead of more surface oriented secondary guns like the Germans decided to do. I do find it interesting that US battleships aren’t often mentioned in that debate, notably the USS South Dakota and beating she took at the Second Naval Battle of Guadalcanal where she even took a direct hit 14-inch shell hit on one of her 16-inch turret barbettes.

It is certainly open to debate which is why I put sunk or scuttled at the end; and yes, she would have gone down anyway. The battleships were each a product of where each nation thought they would fight, with the Germans primarily interested in the North Atlantic and more concerned about the numerical superiority of the British Fleet rather than aircraft back in 1940.

I do agree that the South Dakota class would have acquitted itself quite well, especially in light of its much shorter length. The American decision to use a superb dual purpose 5" and cover the ships with the very effective quad 40mm Bofors made American battleships by far the most heavily protected ships against air attack, then again, the South Dakotas and Iowas were all commissioned after Pearl Harbor. One thing of note is that the South Dakotas and Iowas utilized an internal armor belt vs an external armor belt of the Montana's - the internal belt was more susceptible to flooding. Also from reading, it appears there was a weak spot against torpedoes near the #1 turret which caused serious damage to the North Carolina.

In case anyone is interested, here is a good historical article on torpedo defense during WW2. http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-047.php

 

[nittany03]

The second of the Nimitz class carriers, USS Dwight W. Eisenhower (CVN-69). Commissioned in 1977 to replace the Midway class USS Franklin D. Roosevelt, the Ike has supported operations all over the world, including Eagle Claw in 1980, the ill-fated rescue attempt of the hostages in Iran.

EAGLE CLAW was launched from Nimitz.

 

[Randy Daytona]

EAGLE CLAW was launched from Nimitz.

The perils of not double checking wikipedia. Good catch.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Few more photos of HMS Queen Elizabeth as it is head across the Atlantic to the US. Article includes the beer collection aboard.

Commence jealousy — the Royal Navy just opened a pub on its prized new carrier

https://www.militarytimes.com/off-d...-just-opened-a-pub-on-its-prized-new-carrier/

The Royal Navy's new aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth arrives in Gibraltar for her first overseas port visit. The 65,000 tonne future flagship was conducting a routine logistics stop having left her home in Portsmouth a week earlier for helicopter trials. (MM180007)
Dave Jenkins - InfoGibraltar -

https://flic.kr/p/KfoQ5V

Queen Elizabeth at sea on 28 June, two days after her departure from Rosyth, in company with HMS Sutherland (foreground) and HMS Iron Duke (background)

 

[Jim123]

It is certainly open to debate which is why I put sunk or scuttled at the end; and yes, she would have gone down anyway.

I didn't realize there was debate about it... you learn something new every day. When I read your original post, I was thinking in my head, "No, HMS Dorsetshire torpedoed her in the end..."

For the German side of the story (the Bismarck or any other war history), the problem I find with looking up the German side of WWI and WWII history is like 90% of the google hits are neo-Nazi websites and similarly kooky stuff. It's hard to sift through that stuff to find anything good. There is good material out there but it's more work to find it than stuff on any of the other major powers.

 

[Flash]

I didn't realize there was debate about it... you learn something new every day. When I read your original post, I was thinking in my head, "No, HMS Dorsetshire torpedoed her in the end..."

The debate started pretty much right after the Bismarck slipped beneath the waves. Basically it is all about pride, did the mightiest navy on the high seas sink their biggest nemesis or did were the crew themselves responsible. It is largely a moot point since she sank anyways, and was disabled long before she sank, but bragging rights are still a big deal.

For the German side of the story...

At least for the Bismarck almost every decent history of sinking has both sides of the story.

 

[BigRed389]

Few more photos of HMS Queen Elizabeth as it is head across the Atlantic to the US. Article includes the beer collection aboard.

Commence jealousy — the Royal Navy just opened a pub on its prized new carrier

https://www.militarytimes.com/off-d...-just-opened-a-pub-on-its-prized-new-carrier/

Good looking pub. Nice open parking lot too.

 

[Randy Daytona]

And as the Brits bring online 2 full sized carriers, they have sold their dedicated helicopter carrier to Brazil. The Brits may have reduced amphibious operations, but the 2 big decks are another story. Formerly HMS Ocean, it is now PHM Atlantico.

https://www.janes.com/article/82583/brazil-s-new-helicopter-carrier-set-to-arrive

Length: 667 ft, Beam: 115 ft, Displacement: 21,500 tons
Twin Diesels produced 18 knots
Armament: Up to 18 helicopters and 800+ Marines
Commissioned: 30 Sep 1998, Sold to Brazil: 19 Feb 2018



PHM Atlantico (A140)

An Army Air Corps Apache helicopter takes off from HMS Ocean during Operation Ellamy, the UK's contribution to UNSCR1973 in the Mediterranean Sea near Libya. Organization: ROYAL NAVY Object Name: OC110274005 Category: MOD Supplemental Categories: Equipment, Aircraft, Helicopters, Apache, Ships, Assault, Operations, Theatres, Afghanistan, Libya Keywords: Army, Equipment, Aircraft, Helicopter, Attack, Apache, WAH64, WAH-64, WAH 64, Royal Navy, Ship, Landing Platform Helicopter, LPH, HMS Ocean, Libya, Op, Operation, Ellamy Country: Mediterranean Sea Photo: LA(Phot) Guy Pool/MOD

Photo: L(Phot) Dave Jenkins/MOD
Pictured is HMS OCEAN, the Royal Navy’s Landing Platform Helicopter (LPH) and Fleet Flagship. She is pictured with Merlin and Chinook Helicopters on her deck. In her role as a helicopter carrier and amphibious assault ship, Ocean is designed to deliver troops by helicopter or by landing craft – the ship has six helicopters and carries four Mk5 landing craft vehicle and personnel (LCVP). Organization: Royal Navy Object Name: MM160006 Category: MOD Supplemental Categories: Ships, Equipment Keywords: Ocean, Water, Landscape, Terrain, L12, HMS Ocean, LPH, Helicopter Carrier, Landing Platform Helicopter Ship, Ship, Equipment, Royal Navy, Aircraft, Helicopter, Merlin, Chinook Country: At Sea

 

[Flash]

And as the Brits bring online 2 full sized carriers, they have sold their dedicated helicopter carrier to Brazil. The Brits may have reduced amphibious operations, but the 2 big decks are another story. Formerly HMS Ocean, it is now PHM Atlantico.

According to the Brit who we exercise with personnel was the biggest driving factor behind her sale, they needed the sailors to man their two new carriers and are short sailors.

 

[nittany03]

Good looking pub. Nice open parking lot too.

New frontiers in the air wing vs. ship's company rivalry . . . "those damn aviators ran us out of beer!"