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NEWS Comm Helo opportunities about to expand ....

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
Central Command AOR. I'm down with the active-duty deployment cycle for now, but as a post-Navy civilian job? Blergh!
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
That was why my enthusiasm never really piqued with Columbia. It could be cool, but I wonder how old flying half-way around the world gets when you have to do it every 20-some days.
 

IKE

Nerd Whirler
pilot
Retire to ass-n-trash minus the ass?
No thank you.

I've realized recently that military pilots fall into two categories:

1) Those who fly to fight, and
2) Those who fight to fly.

I'm not dis'ing all of you type 2 pilots out there; it's just that I don't get it.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
So post-Navy, how does one do option 1? Or more specifically, how does a Navy dude do option 1? Let's be honest, any green ink in an AC helo pilots logbook has a relative value compared to Army/AF/USMC green ink time. That's not meant as a dis, either, but it is what it is.
 

Python

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Retire to ass-n-trash minus the ass?
No thank you.

I've realized recently that military pilots fall into two categories:

1) Those who fly to fight, and
2) Those who fight to fly.

I'm not dis'ing all of you type 2 pilots out there; it's just that I don't get it.

Do you mean type 2 as those who fight the idea of flying, or fight to fly at every opportunity?
 

IKE

Nerd Whirler
pilot
So post-Navy, how does one do option 1? Or more specifically, how does a Navy dude do option 1?

Do you mean type 2 as those who fight the idea of flying, or fight to fly at every opportunity?

I chose a catchy symmetry of language over precision. What I mean is that, while I love flying, it is a means to an end (the mission). That doesn't mean I'm killing people 24/7 or maybe at all during a military career, but that I could and would if necessary. That includes ASW, @Gatordev, a mission I recently chose to keep doing over the sexier overland stuff. When the Navy tells me I'm done flying, I'll be happy to keep contributing to the mission (as long as it's not as a flag ppt beeyotch).

OTOH, I've flown with many good pilots who treat the mission as a means to keep flying. These are the folks who chase "the show" and other "pure" flying jobs post-Navy. (see helo dudes who think to sideflare is divine and tactics are for losers).
 
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Python

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I chose a catchy symmetry of language over precision. What I mean is that, while I love flying, it is a means to an end (the mission). That doesn't mean I'm killing people 24/7 or maybe at all during a military career, but that I could and would if necessary. That includes ASW, @Gatordev, a mission I recently chose to keep doing over the sexier overland stuff. When the Navy tells me I'm done flying, I'll be happy to keep contributing to the mission (as long as it's not as a flag ppt beeyotch).

OTOH, I've flown with many good pilots who treat the mission as a means to keep flying. These are the folks who chase "the show" and other "pure" flying jobs post-Navy. (see hell dudes who think to sideflare is divine and tactics are for losers).

I see. Well I'm type 2 (for the love of flying in itself, not as a means to get to the show), and I don't get how people don't get that. But to each their own.

I'm floored when I hear my peers say that they won't fly anymore when they get out (professionally or recreationally) because of the reason "flying is 'boring'." Or that they hate flying around just to get current because they're not doing anything tactical. If you want to be tactical go be a SEAL, or even a SWO. They are tacticians. What's the point of getting in an airplane if its a means to an end of being tactical when you can do that so many other ways? I'll stop, I already said to each their own.

*I do understand that the function of our aircraft is warfare. I am on board with that. That doesn't change my previous sentiments about doing this for the love of flight. Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't naive.
 
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Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I chose a catchy symmetry of language over precision. What I mean is that, while I love flying, it is a means to an end (the mission). That doesn't mean I'm killing people 24/7 or maybe at all during a military career, but that I could and would if necessary. That includes ASW, @Gatordev, a mission I recently chose to keep doing over the sexier overland stuff. When the Navy tells me I'm done flying, I'll be happy to keep contributing to the mission (as long as it's not as a flag ppt beeyotch).

OTOH, I've flown with many good pilots who treat the mission as a means to keep flying. These are the folks who chase "the show" and other "pure" flying jobs post-Navy. (see helo dudes who think to sideflare is divine and tactics are for losers).

A more nuanced explanation then what I get from people who want to move on to non-flying jobs after getting out. Not that that's a bad thing, by any means. Everyone has their reasons (and capabilities, I'd argue). That said, I guess I'm Type 2, as well. But I think there's an in-between. I'd love to find some operational use of my flying (because lord knows it's been a while), but I also have to balance the realities of life (whatever that may mean for each individual).

So for me, it's not the show, but something that might, hopefully, scratch either the operational itch, the "leader in aviation" itch, or both. At the end of the day, I'm excited to go on that journey, because the Navy has limited both the more senior I've become, and that just makes it less fun to be here.
 

jtmedli

Well-Known Member
pilot
I see. Well I'm type 2 (for the love of flying in itself, not as a means to get to the show), and I don't get how people don't get that. But to each their own.

I'm floored when I hear my peers say that they won't fly anymore when they get out (professionally or recreationally) because of the reason "flying is 'boring'." Or that they hate flying around just to get current because they're not doing anything tactical. If you want to be tactical go be a SEAL, or even a SWO. They are tacticians. What's the point of getting in an airplane if its a means to an end of being tactical when you can do that so many other ways? I'll stop, I already said to each their own.

*I do understand that the function of our aircraft is warfare. I am on board with that. That doesn't change my previous sentiments about doing this for the love of flight. Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't naive.

Then there are those of us who love to fly and love to fight the aircraft (so to speak). I get the same shit-eating grin wherever it's vertrep, an air wing CSAR, or roping dudes onto a house. The only problem I have is that they put wings on my chest and then tell me to go spend over half my career doing something other than flying.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The only problem I have is that they put wings on my chest and then tell me to go spend over half my career doing something other than flying.
Something I presume you understood before you took your oath of office.
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
Something I presume you understood before you took your oath of office.
We all knew that before taking the oath, some to a greater extent than others. But,

1) We chose to be naval aviators, not ship drivers, supply officers, etc..so flying was a major part of why we signed up.
2) Once we experience the job, we may find flying all the time wasn't what we thought it was and/or we may find the tactical stuff is more fun, or we get engaged in ppt and that becomes our life.
3) Our balances between flying and other stuff changes throughout our career, so can our preferences.

I think gatordev is right. It is nuanced. Everyone does it for a slightly different reason. There may be a single sliding scale of flying versus "other", but for some there may several sliding scales, like a stereo equalizer, which they prefer to adjust throughout their life.

I'm a poster child for odd military flying careers. For example, this past deployment I flew and did a ton of power points. I enjoyed both! And I got to spread the love. There are now 50 more Army aviators who are qualified to land a helicopter on a ship because of my flying and my power points. Even better, there are a few soldiers alive because of my flying.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I like your answer much more than Jmedli's, which sounds an awful lot like "The Navy tricked me."
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
Wow this thread sure pivoted...

I'm one of IKE's type 2 aviators, I stay in the game because I love the flying, and the variety of experience I get. Some of the ground stuff is fun and interesting, but I wouldn't be very happy if I knew I was done flying. For now at least- this is "the show" for me.

That said, although I'm not a helo guy, I sure wouldn't want to ferry people around the sandbox as a civilian job. Airlines sound vastly more appealing, even with a couple of years at regionals in the mix.
 
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Python

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Wow this thread sure pivoted...

I'm one of IKE's type 2 aviators, I stay in the game because I love the flying, and the variety of experience I get. Some of the ground stuff is fun and interesting, but I wouldn't be very happy if I knew I was done flying. For now at least- this is "the show" for me.

That said, although I'm not a helo guy, I sure wouldn't want to ferry people around the sandbox as a civilian job. Airlines sound vastly more appealing, even with a couple of years at regionals in the mix.

Agree. Being a type 2 guy, I enjoy BFM, Low levels, and SHB at the ship way more than any 4vX whatever. It's the fact that those things are relevant to actually stick and rudder flying skills/mechanics, more than strategy.
 
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