• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

Flag Officers

C

Charles Edward

Member
Hair Warriors? said:
The U.S. military is moving (although not quickly enough) toward enlisted and warrant officer pilots for RPAs: http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/...ilots-first-time-since-world-war-ii/77490376/

It makes management sense, for a LOT of reasons...
  • RPA pilots don't really need a BA/BS**
  • RPA pilots don't need SERE school, swim quals, parachute training, ejection seat training, etc.
  • RPA pilots can look over their shoulder for questions/direction from the commanding officer in the room
  • RPA pilots don't typically have the same missions (no CAS or troop transport) or ROE as manned aviators - someone else can expand on this
  • RPA pilots can get up and take a bio break or "tap in" a more senior pilot for a more delicate maneuver, as the need arises
  • Enlisted or warrant RPA pilots make a great pool of candidates for mustang aviator officers
  • Officers are way more expensive: both training-wise, plus compensation
** I'd be interested to know if any colleges are offering a degree in remotely operated vehicles.
Click to expand...
Apologies for the ignorance, but what does RPA stand for? I assume it has something to do with drones and/or remote vehicles? Thanks.
 
M

magnetfreezer

Well-Known Member
Hair Warriors? said:
  • RPA pilots can look over their shoulder for questions/direction from the commanding officer in the room
  • RPA pilots don't typically have the same missions (no CAS or troop transport) or ROE as manned aviators - someone else can expand on this
  • RPA pilots can get up and take a bio break or "tap in" a more senior pilot for a more delicate maneuver, as the need arises
  • Enlisted or warrant RPA pilots make a great pool of candidates for mustang aviator officers
  • Officers are way more expensive: both training-wise, plus compensation
** I'd be interested to know if any colleges are offering a degree in remotely operated vehicles.
Click to expand...
1. Sometimes. Where does the commanding officer get his RPA experience?
2. Depends on the RPA. MQ-1/9 perform plenty of CAS/strikes under the same ROE.
3. Sometimes. A long boring ISR scan mission can turn kinetic very quickly sometimes (many Hellfire shots are taken by the O-1 pilot / E-3 sensor operator team before the ops sup can find someone to watch)
4. Flight school is designed to take mustangs from any career field (or for that matter OCS grads straight off the street) and produce a standardized, skilled product.
5. Enlisted flight training would be just as expensive as officers. The Air Force already has a problem with retaining sensor operators (they can jump ship to a contractor for much higher pay and lack of military shenanigans). If there were enlisted pilots, A1C Snuffy now even has more motiviation to get out - he's making half as much as 1LT Bagadonuts to do the exact same job.
 
IKE

IKE

Nerd Whirler
pilot
Randy Daytona said:
Currently over 50% of naval (or Navy- can't remember) aviators being winged are rotary but the large majority of aviator flags are fixed wing. We have had that discussion on here before - things might get better for the helicopter bubbas over time - but until drones take over, I doubt if it will be a substantial shift, unlike the Marine Corps - the new Assistant Commandant is a Cobra pilot.
Click to expand...
The problem, IMO, with some of these statistics is you need to look at what percent got jets when those who are Admirals now were winging. IIRC, 25+ yrs ago, Rotary was notably less than the current 50-60% of NA.

Once you correct for old platform distributions, I'd guess any remaining difference is due to primarily two things:
1) Opportunity for major command at sea, which is why some helo bubbas whine about making a helo CAG.
2) Currently, almost all VFA/VAQ skippers go to sea and get ranked by a CAG, while EXP helo skippers stay ashore and get ranked by a CDRE (possibly behind an FRS bonus CO). 25 yrs ago, HS was the only CAG-ranked helo community.

The Jet v. Helo distribution among NAVAIR flags seems much more proportionate, if anyone cares.
 
Randy Daytona

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
IKE said:
The problem, IMO, with some of these statistics is you need to look at what percent got jets when those who are Admirals now were winging. IIRC, 25+ yrs ago, Rotary was notably less than the current 50-60% of NA.

Once you correct for old platform distributions, I'd guess any remaining difference is due to primarily two things:
1) Opportunity for major command at sea, which is why some helo bubbas whine about making a helo CAG.
2) Currently, almost all VFA/VAQ skippers go to sea and get ranked by a CAG, while EXP helo skippers stay ashore and get ranked by a CDRE (possibly behind an FRS bonus CO). 25 yrs ago, HS was the only CAG-ranked helo community.

The Jet v. Helo distribution among NAVAIR flags seems much more proportionate, if anyone cares.
Click to expand...

I realize there is a quarter century lag time between ensign and admiral and thus why I said "over time" but, as stated in crew coordination class, it is the speakers job to be clear - my bad.
 
Swanee

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
Hair Warriors? said:
The U.S. military is moving (although not quickly enough) toward enlisted and warrant officer pilots for RPAs: http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/...ilots-first-time-since-world-war-ii/77490376/

It makes management sense, for a LOT of reasons...
  • RPA pilots don't really need a BA/BS**
  • RPA pilots don't need SERE school, swim quals, parachute training, ejection seat training, etc.
  • RPA pilots can look over their shoulder for questions/direction from the commanding officer in the room
  • RPA pilots don't typically have the same missions (no CAS or troop transport) or ROE as manned aviators - someone else can expand on this
  • RPA pilots can get up and take a bio break or "tap in" a more senior pilot for a more delicate maneuver, as the need arises
  • Enlisted or warrant RPA pilots make a great pool of candidates for mustang aviator officers
  • Officers are way more expensive: both training-wise, plus compensation
** I'd be interested to know if any colleges are offering a degree in remotely operated vehicles.
Click to expand...


MQ-9s are running CAS and SCAR in Africa and CENTCOM. KMAX is running resupply to FOBs (contractor run). CO's are not in the COC ("cockpit"), that's not how it works. The tap in doesn't really happen too much anymore. Crew swaps happen regularly to limit crew day. Caveat that this does happen with contractors, as they can't employ ord or lase for ord.

Enlisted and Warrant guys aren't really going to aviation MOSs. They are "uniquely qualified" in a high demand, low density MOS... That one kind of sucks....
 
robav8r

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Recovering LSO said:
He was CSG commander on my first deployment. Took his NEPIC LOAR Fair 2 wire debriefs like a gentleman.
Click to expand...
I remember JAWS coming out to inspect CAT 4 while I was preflighting one day after we had a Cat Track fire the day prior. Was wearing his NWU's with just his t-shirt on, no blouse. I actually yelled at him and told him to get off the catapult. I soon realized it was his catapult and he was more than welcome :) He was a good dude . . . .
 
E

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
robav8r said:
I remember JAWS coming out to inspect CAT 4 while I was preflighting one day after we had a Cat Track fire the day prior. Was wearing his NWU's with just his t-shirt on, no blouse. I actually yelled at him and told him to get off the catapult. I soon realized it was his catapult and he was more than welcome :) He was a good dude . . . .
Click to expand...

Isn't that ADM Winnefeld? I think he was the CO of VF-211 when I was on the Nimitz.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top