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OCS Attrition

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
All,

OCS attrition for this Fiscal Year has been higher than normal levels. While much of the blame goes to the recruiter for not properly mentoring/preparing the applicants, some of the blame does go to those who walk into OCS not knowing what they're getting themselves into. For the applicants on here, both fleet and civilian, you need to take a good look at yourself and think about why you want to become a Naval Officer. You're not applying for a college job, you're not applying for a 9-5 desk job... you're applying for a CAREER. As an applicant you have to be 100 PERCENT COMMITTED the moment your start the applicant and ship off to OCS. If not, you're setting yourself up for disappointment in the future...
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
All,

OCS attrition for this Fiscal Year has been higher than normal levels. While much of the blame goes to the recruiter for not properly mentoring/preparing the applicants, some of the blame does go to those who walk into OCS not knowing what they're getting themselves into. For the applicants on here, both fleet and civilian, you need to take a good look at yourself and think about why you want to become a Naval Officer. You're not applying for a college job, you're not applying for a 9-5 desk job... you're applying for a CAREER. As an applicant you have to be 100 PERCENT COMMITTED the moment your start the applicant and ship off to OCS. If not, you're setting yourself up for disappointment in the future...

Well said. I don't feel bad for those that show up unprepared who were given all the tools, I do feel bad for the ones who show up at OCS and are hearing things for the first time.
 

jtmedli

Well-Known Member
pilot
Umm...thanks? Sadly, OCS has gotten much easier since I was there 3 years ago and it wasn't exactly that hard when I was there. If you can't show up running a 1.5'er under 12 minutes and doing some pushups and sit-ups without dying then you need to think about another profession because OCS is NOT the hardest thing you'll ever do. I promise you that.
 

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
Umm...thanks? Sadly, OCS has gotten much easier since I was there 3 years ago and it wasn't exactly that hard when I was there. If you can't show up running a 1.5'er under 12 minutes and doing some pushups and sit-ups without dying then you need to think about another profession because OCS is NOT the hardest thing you'll ever do. I promise you that.

The physical aspect isn't so bad, it's the motivation (or lack thereof) and DORing which have been a concern with the OCS folks.
 

WEGL12

VT-28
Umm...thanks? Sadly, OCS has gotten much easier since I was there 3 years ago and it wasn't exactly that hard when I was there. If you can't show up running a 1.5'er under 12 minutes and doing some pushups and sit-ups without dying then you need to think about another profession because OCS is NOT the hardest thing you'll ever do. I promise you that.

It's surprising how many can't meet those standards. I think our class had 10 roll because of failing the first PFA. Some people didn't even know what the standards were.

I think our class also had around 6 DORs which I later found out was pretty high. A bunch of people didn't know what they were getting into but I am not sure how because it takes about five minutes to get a rough idea of OCS. Lots of changes are taking place to the program and it seemed like the DIs are really limited in how they train the class. But I agree it was easier than what I expected.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
The physical aspect isn't so bad, it's the motivation (or lack thereof) and DORing which have been a concern with the OCS folks.

It seems in the past many of the DOR's were guys who went to OCS to be a Pilot or NFO and were told they were NPQ but didn't want to redesignate to a non aviation job, are you getting feedback on those DOR's?
 

Nuknfuts

New Member
It seems in the past many of the DOR's were guys who went to OCS to be a Pilot or NFO and were told they were NPQ but didn't want to redesignate to a non aviation job, are you getting feedback on those DOR's?

The last few classes have all brought in large chunks of Pilots and NFOs. Could that be part of it? I know the DORs in my class were both Pilots
 

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
It seems in the past many of the DOR's were guys who went to OCS to be a Pilot or NFO and were told they were NPQ but didn't want to redesignate to a non aviation job, are you getting feedback on those DOR's?

I have gotten feedback. Surprisingly it was Med DQ at all. Many folks simply quit within the first or second day because they had a change of heart. There have also been stories of people driving xcountry to OCS and quitting before arriving in Newport.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
I always discourage applicants from driving to Newport, especially since you wont be able to use your car 95% of the time.

I had very few drive to Newport, most had cheap college cars anyway and figured they would be able to upgrade after OCS anyway.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
I can understand it being the recruiter's fault if an applicant shows up to OCS not knowing how to take the PRT, but how is it the recruiter's fault that an applicant DORs while driving there or in the first couple of days?
 

Dmitriy

Active Member
I'd like to throw in my two cents on the issue of attrition, facing the unknown, and doubts though off the bat I can only offer the perspective of a lowly non-prior OCS hopeful.
I think I can draw some parallels from my own experiences with attrition rates, and before everyone comes down on me about how it's apples and oranges and how I don't have a clue what I'm talking about when it comes to the Navy, OCS, etc., I'll be the first to admit it: I really don't. What I have seen and experienced first hand is architecture school. For those of you who don't know, accredited architecture programs are 5 year programs. Most have little in common with traditional 4 year college experiences. And most are notorious for a staggering rate of attrition through 5 years. My class started at 75. We graduated with 45. And that was considered "low" attrition. More then a handful of those graduating with my class "rolled" into our class after failing a semester. Majority of the victims of attrition, however, were suffered in the first year - we were down to 57, I think by the start of our second year. Some dropped midway through that year, some just a week into the program, a couple of names we never even connected with faces - they dropped before even starting. Most of the people dropped because they realized that they had no idea what they were getting themselves into.
I have little sympathy for those that drop before it even starts or on the second day. Of anything. How can you know something is not for you without even trying? I do not think there is any shame, however, in trying and admitting to yourself that something is not for you.
I am preparing for OCS and a career of a Naval Officer. I am studying the gouge pack, I train physically, I have studied the naval history since I was 10, and I have read close to just about every account of OCS available online. At the end of the day, however, as I stated above, I haven't got a clue. And that statement is re-enforced by everyone - just about every reply to questions about how to prepare for OCS comes down to "study/train all you want, you still will not be ready for it." Which is fine! The point of OCS (in my humble opinion) is to subject a CANDIDATE to the unknown and see how (s)he handles it. At least that's what I gather from all the posts that say that OCS bears little to no resemblance to the Fleet. It is not the fault of recruiters that a candidate ends up DORing. If recruiters knew 100% that candidates would or wouldn't make it, there would be no point in having OCS.
People will say that you have to be 100% committed and not have a doubt in your mind about something these same people claim you have no idea about. I will agree with the statement that a comission has to be absolutely something somebody wants before going to OCS, however, I say doubts have their place in the decision process, at least for those who do not have any real prior experience with the military, because at the end you cannot know how you will react when you come face to face with the unknown. Doubt is not a sign of unpreparedness, it is a sign of maturity. Presence of doubt is not a sign of unpreparedness or lack of commitment. Presence of doubt is what separates confidence from blind conviction, which, in my opinion, is essential in good decision making, especially when human lives hang in the balance of the decisions. I am confident that I will succeed through OCS, but at the same time I allow that I will be put in situations I have never faced before by virtue of having no experience with the military, and I cannot even begin to predict how I will react to them. So to boast that I will tear through it, 100% guaranteed, seems foolish, which in turn seeds doubt.
To get to the point, I guess, I'm not too concerned about DOR rates. I understand that it has all sorts of implications for the Navy and the government - tax money spent, etc - but frankly, I take attrition as a sign that the system is working. That's not to say the goal of DIs and class officers should be to break the candidates and make them drop, but for the sake of the candidate, the Navy, and the country, I'd much rather see candidates come to the realization that being an officer is not what they are made for in OCS rather than later. Of course, im my mind, all of these DORs are mature and self-reflective and are better from the experience like that one guy(gal?) who wrote Confessions of an OCS Dropout, which is probably far from the truth...
 

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
I'll be the first to admit it: I really don't. What I have seen and experienced first hand is architecture school. .

I stopped reading after this. You have no clue what are you talking about wrt any service's OCS.
 
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