-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Colombian Prostitutes - Good Times or Career Enders?
- Thread starter helolumpy
- Start date
Secret Squirrells need loven too.......it's not all sunglasses and talking into your cuff.
"The scandal regarding as many a 12 Sercret Service agents being sent home because one allegedly tried to bring a prostitute into his hotel room, which resulted in a confrontation, has now widened to include five U.S. service members."
Other than letting the police get called, I fail to see where either the Secret Service or military guys did anything wrong - assuming prostitution is legal in Columbia (which I assume it is since the police didn't seem to care about it).
We had this happen when I was at SOUTHCOM (1997-98) and the Commander's wife had a fit when she found out some guys were partaking downrange. The JAG basically said that if it was legal in the country, if there had been no order prohibiting seeing prostitutes, and if the servicemember did not call attention to the fact he was in the U.S. armed forces then it was perfectly okay under the UCMJ.
I wonder if the guys at Fallon get in trouble if they visit the legal brothels in the area.
When I was the Nuclear Weapons Officer on TR and went to the PRP Certifying Officer school in Norfolk (early 1990s), the instructors used this type of incident as well as things like playing "Smiles" in Cubi as examples of activites that "while not illegal or against the UCMJ are obvious grounds for refusing to certify or de-certifying individuals from the PRP". I was sitting with another former Westpac LT and a female AO LDO LT who has also been to Cubi. I asked the instructor if he was positive this was descertfying behavior and he said "Absolutely". So I gathered my stuff and the three of us got up to leave the classroom. The instructor said "where are you going, class isn't over". I said that since all three of us had been to Cubi and either partaked or watched the fun, we obviously couldn't be in the PRP so there was no reason for us to finish the course. I also told him he probably needed to tell Bupers to decertify the entire west coast Navy and to ask our detailers why they thought we were eligible to be certifying officers when obviously we were morally defiecint. Neededly to say, a JAG than came to tell the class the real legalities under both the UCMJ and PRP.
We had this happen when I was at SOUTHCOM (1997-98) and the Commander's wife had a fit when she found out some guys were partaking downrange. The JAG basically said that if it was legal in the country, if there had been no order prohibiting seeing prostitutes, and if the servicemember did not call attention to the fact he was in the U.S. armed forces then it was perfectly okay under the UCMJ.
I wonder if the guys at Fallon get in trouble if they visit the legal brothels in the area.
When I was the Nuclear Weapons Officer on TR and went to the PRP Certifying Officer school in Norfolk (early 1990s), the instructors used this type of incident as well as things like playing "Smiles" in Cubi as examples of activites that "while not illegal or against the UCMJ are obvious grounds for refusing to certify or de-certifying individuals from the PRP". I was sitting with another former Westpac LT and a female AO LDO LT who has also been to Cubi. I asked the instructor if he was positive this was descertfying behavior and he said "Absolutely". So I gathered my stuff and the three of us got up to leave the classroom. The instructor said "where are you going, class isn't over". I said that since all three of us had been to Cubi and either partaked or watched the fun, we obviously couldn't be in the PRP so there was no reason for us to finish the course. I also told him he probably needed to tell Bupers to decertify the entire west coast Navy and to ask our detailers why they thought we were eligible to be certifying officers when obviously we were morally defiecint. Neededly to say, a JAG than came to tell the class the real legalities under both the UCMJ and PRP.
Conducting business with a prostitute is illegal under the UCMJ, even in areas where prostitution is legal.
(b) That the accused compelled, induced, enticed, or procured such person to engage in an act of sexual intercourse in exchange for money or other compensation (Note: if the act was "compelled" on or after October 1, 2007 the offense will be charged under the new Article 120). and
(c) That this act was wrongful; and (d) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces."
Article 138-34 Pandering and Prostitution
(2) Patronizing a Prostitute.
(a) That the accused had sexual intercourse with another person not the accused's spouse;(b) That the accused compelled, induced, enticed, or procured such person to engage in an act of sexual intercourse in exchange for money or other compensation (Note: if the act was "compelled" on or after October 1, 2007 the offense will be charged under the new Article 120). and
(c) That this act was wrongful; and (d) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces."
In addition to helolumpy's UCMJ cite, the other big deal here is the Trafficking Victims Protection Act of 2000 and other related, follow-on laws. I think this changes a lot of things than the way they were even just 15 years ago.
(I'm not a JAG and don't play one on TV.)
(I'm not a JAG and don't play one on TV.)
A quick google search shows that President George Bush changed it via Executive Order # 12473 on October 14, 2005. What I said was true when I was on active duty. Guess I'm just not keeping up with the (politically correct) times.
And to think, I used to like him.....
Just another reason to add to the many why it is a good time to be a retired officer.
And to think, I used to like him.....
Just another reason to add to the many why it is a good time to be a retired officer.
There's a lot about that article that doesn't add up, including what HAL is saying about how much of a non-issue prostitution is even in Cartegena. I'm guessing I know which hotel they stayed in, and if it's the same one I stayed in (along with many embassy and DOS people), they don't require your ID when you walk in the door.
Awesome... and true. Good for you!
In days gone by, a WestPac sailor had not lived until he woke up with a chicken on his chest, or had smiled in Subic City.
[As for me, I just stayed in the Cubi O'Club till dawn, playing Klondike. 
But I did hear of these things happening.]
But I did hear of these things happening.]Alas, no more.
Like the military I would assume the Secret Service has rules and regs about using prostitutes (maybe.....), making one's self vulnerable to exploitation/blackmail and bringing discredit upon the organization. I know someone who got arrested for rape but eventually acquitted in an S&M hookup gone bad. Still got fired though after failing to report his arrest, even going so far as to hide it. It's always the quiet ones......
When I was a shooter, my crew (bow cats) hung out at the East End in Olongapo. The East End made New Paulines or the You and I Club look like charm schools. They would occasionally invite me out to have a drink with them. I considered it my sacred duty to go. Found out all kinds of things that I otherwise would not known. Of course they were always testing you just to see how you'd react to "unusual" situations. There were no Benny Boys at the East End.
Validating BzB's Rule #13 for foreign port liberty survival:
"Never pull liberty in the 'East End' part of any town without a crew of tough, burly AOs or ABs in tow!"
BzB
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this course serve as the "catch all" for all things immoral?