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Dead burglar's family awarded $300k in damages

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
True enough! The guy is definitely not an "innocent bystander", but the dealership had an ambush set and even told the police that they were going to kill the guys if they caught them. That is bordering on pre-meditated murder. Was the guy a saint..absolutely not, but is a used car (that probably had insurance on it) worth anyones life?

Wow- Were you on the scumbag meth head's defensive council?

Armed security is hardly an ambush...

And as far as whether it was worth his life or not- the junkie was willing to gamble his life that it was. The armed security guards/dealership thought their cars were worth his life. Did the State? The Grand Jury on the criminal side of the house decided not to indict them.

Do I feel sorry for the little girl? Yes, no one can choose their parents. I don't think the dealership should have to pay money to make up for a dead junkie father because their security killed them while he tried to steal one of their cars.
 

brownshoe

Well-Known Member
Contributor
More extreme version of when some assholes stole my dirtbike, crashed it then sued me.

Kill all lawyers who take cases like this. Problem solved.

Yup. Something similar happened to me. My 67 Healey 3000 was stolen and during a “joy-ride” they, the thieves, side-swiped a few cars (doing about 90). There were four passengers (in what is basically a two-seater... they had the top down) and one of the guys sitting on the back deck was killed in the accident. The family of the person (thief) killed in the accident wanted my insurance company to pay for the funeral. And what’s that old joke? “If there is one lawyer in town he will starve. If there are two, they will both get rich.”

Steve
 

scoolbubba

Brett327 gargles ballsacks
pilot
Contributor
True enough! The guy is definitely not an "innocent bystander", but the dealership had an ambush set and even told the police that they were going to kill the guys if they caught them. That is bordering on pre-meditated murder. Was the guy a saint..absolutely not, but is a used car (that probably had insurance on it) worth anyones life?

Someone devoted time and effort and money to buying and selling that car, and some junkie decided to take it to support his habit. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on. Excusing people's behavior only encourages it to get worse. What's that old adage about hanging men for stealing horses?
 

eas7888

Looking forward to some P-8 action
pilot
Contributor
No sympathy whatsoever for the man who was killed. There are too many people in this country who are trying to earn an honest (relative term for a used car dealer) living, only to have asshats like this guy try and skate by through dishonest means. To quote Samuel L. Jackson from the film 'Rules of Engagement' "Yes they deserved to die, and I hope they burn in hell."

Saudi Arabia doesn't do many things right in their country (my opinion), but they deal with criminals very well. Maybe we can just start sending our criminals there to be tried?
 

BarrettRC8

VMFA
pilot
True enough! The guy is definitely not an "innocent bystander", but the dealership had an ambush set and even told the police that they were going to kill the guys if they caught them. That is bordering on pre-meditated murder. Was the guy a saint..absolutely not, but is a used car (that probably had insurance on it) worth anyones life?

If we have a "like" button for posts, can we have a dislike button?

Selling those cars is that owner of the dealership's livelihood, by attempting to take his livelihood from him the would-be thief was threatening his life. If more people felt this way, we'd likely have a lot less theft and degenerates running around.

Or maybe I'm just pissed because someone vandalized my car this weekend for absolutely no reason.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I think you guys are confusing the "correct" moral acts versus the correct legal acts. Rocketman has it right. Legally, it wasn't a good shoot. Morally, well, that's up to the individual.
 

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
I say blast the dude into oblivion.

That said, unless he's actually in the act of committing a forcible felony threatening property or bodily harm you can't shoot. Also, if he started to steal a car and then stopped and started running away and you shot him then, that too is not a legal justification to shoot.

YMMV depending on what state but that's a pretty accurate rule of thumb for most states.
 

eas7888

Looking forward to some P-8 action
pilot
Contributor
Carry a throw away gun that can't be traced back to you...problem solved.

Is it dirty? yes. Legal? Hell no It's not like I made him climb the fence though. . .
 

scoolbubba

Brett327 gargles ballsacks
pilot
Contributor
I think you guys are confusing the "correct" moral acts versus the correct legal acts. Rocketman has it right. Legally, it wasn't a good shoot. Morally, well, that's up to the individual.

That's where most of the problems of our society start. What is moral rarely dictates what is legal, and we are worse off because of it.
 

eas7888

Looking forward to some P-8 action
pilot
Contributor
Isn't that what the fundamentalist Christians have been trying to do with the federal government recently?
 

millsra13

'Merica
pilot
Contributor
Boy oh boy did I open up a can or worms on this one! I think that somehow I have turned into the liberal, left-wing, nut job on this one (which I am not). The biggest issue I have with this whole scenario is that by not punishing the dealership in some fashion, it might have been viewed as condoning vigilantism. When that starts happening, emotions start clouding judgements and irreversible mistakes are made.

An example would be: The dealership is pissed because they have been robbed x number of times and decides to shoot the next person who attempts to rob them. Two dealership employees sit in the dark waiting for the scum to scale the fence and steal a car. Low and behold there they are, jumping that fence. The gunmen shoot (even while the assailants are running away and cowering behind a shed) and kill one of the scum, only there is a problem; the guy they shot was some stupid teenager who was dared to jump the fence and let all the air out of the tires(or something equally as mischievous).

Do thieves deserve to be punished? Yes, but give me a break...murder? This is the USA, even the Taliban are generous enough to "only" cut off the hands of thieves. I say let our legal system do what it was designed to do. Obviously I won't change anyone's mind and perhaps I am naive in thinking that even shit-bags deserve a fair shot at the legal system, but that's why I love this great country of ours.
 

PropAddict

Now with even more awesome!
pilot
Contributor
I concealed carry. I have a bedside gun.

Still, I don't think that I'd set up an armed stakeout to protect my place from thieves. I'd let cops do that. And if I were to be in the position to want to hire security to protect my place, pretty sure I wouldn't have them hole up and ambush anyone with guns. That reeks of a desire for vengeance, not deterrrence.

If they wanted to stop the crime enough to be out at all hours with guns and a security detail, maybe they should have had that detail walk around and make rounds.

I have a tough time justifying the shoot, based on the facts as given. If a guy is fleeing or hiding and not shooting at me, I'm probably just gonna call the cops and try to pin him down.

Similarly, I have a tough time agreeing with anyone who says that a tweaker engaged in at least 3 illegal acts is entitled to any sort of remuneration for injuries sustained.
 

PropStop

Kool-Aid free since 2001.
pilot
Contributor
...The family of the person (thief) killed in the accident wanted my insurance company to pay for the funeral.

How'd this fall out in the end? Did you have any out of pocket costs (other than supreme irritation)?
 
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