F-14B/D Afterburner T/O restrictions

[flaps]

if not, then joe burke (grumman test pilot) and i probably made the only one in tomcat #7 at calverton around '88 or so.
we had a navy chase who felt obligated to report the event.
grounded for a week to make nice with the navy guys.
(joe and i were marines)
#7 is on the deck of the intrepid in new york

 

[MIDNJAC]

What was the reasoning behind said restriction?

 

[FlyingOnFumes]

Last I read, no. Reason for that, I heard, was you would exceed Vle before you could bring the gear up because of the raw acceleration. NATOPS also says burner in IMC can be vertigo inducing.

 

[flaps]

vmcg

controlability on takeoff roll if one burner blows out. asymetric thrust.
if that did occur, the good side would be limited to min a/b

 

[scoolbubba]

Same reason P-3s can't use afterburner on the takeoff roll.

 

[Catmando]

controlability on takeoff roll if one burner blows out. asymetric thrust
if that did occur the good side would be limited to min a/b

Anybody know the Zone 5 thrust of an F-14B/D compared to the original F-14A TF-30s?

[We did Zone 5 TOs in the A, FWIW]

 

[flaps]

Thrust:
F-14A: 20,900 pounds static thrust per engine
F-14B and F-14D: 27,000 pounds per engine

 

[Catmando]

Thrust:
F-14A: 20,900 pounds static thrust per engine
F-14B and F-14D: 27,000 pounds per engine

Thanks. That is a significant difference.

But the F-14A thrust you mention must have been a later engine mod. My 1984 NATOPS lists it as 17,077 pounds in AB.

I recall some losses with engine loss on TO back then, even with the lower thrust. This caused a lot of concern and scrambling for new procedures.
My old NATOPS says the following unusual comment:

"Until Vmc and Vmcg (minimum-contol speed and minimum-contol speed ground) have been determined, no specific procedures can be established to counter the effects of an engine failure during field takeoff."
Change 2 -15 May 1984

That is pretty amazing since the aircraft had by then been operational for almost a decade. I do remember later they established new and radical procedures after that testing.

 

[flaps]

we were gonna do vmcg tests at edwards. by mutual decision (grumman/navy) the tests were canceled when the slide rule guys projected the risk.
also, you're probably correct on the thrust in the a. i just googled 'tomcat engine thrust' .did not check an alternate source for the data.
(haven't taken an open book natops test in a while).

 

[Schnugg]

I did a burner go in an F-14D at Reno Stead after the air races. High DA on a hot humid day, means that little caveat about best judgement in NATOPS came into play. Restriction in place: AB it was.

Nice....

 

[flaps]

schnugg, we were at sea level on a cold day. it was awsome.
takeoff roll was about ten feet. (no shit).

"Also, did the Tomcat restriction apply to cat shots, too, or was this just a ground roll thing?"

also applied to carrier ops. that's probably the best way to tell the difference between an a and a b/d when watching a navy film.
the a's will be in burner during cat shots.

 

[flaps]

thanks, cat
now i'm wondering when the last f14A (tf-30) flight took place.
looks like some time after 2003

 

[lcaeagle913]

thanks, cat
now i'm wondering when the last f14A (tf-30) flight took place.
looks like some time after 2003

VF-211 was the last F-14A squadron, and transitioned to the F/A-18F in 2005