Lady: Get your head out of your ass!

[CDOG]

I suggest that MacDonald's was very responsive to the long term interests of its share holders and the reputation of it's employees and service.

Wink has laid out a well informed argument for what is probably the "third side" to the coffee story. It is a good analysis and I agree with what he says about corporate duties.

I guess what bothers me the most about this story is that people pass judgment without knowing all the facts. The bottom line is that I don't think this woman was out shopping for a lawsuit. She received a horrible injury, but the facts are so facially ludicrious it is easy for people to immediately wave the self-accountability banner.

 

[Pags]

58Driver is a CHICK?

That is the most shocking thing so far in this thread. I never had guessed that.

Where have you been?

 

[porw0004]

I think the real debate here is whether it is "McDonald's" or "MacDonald's"

 

[wink]

I guess what bothers me the most about this story is that people pass judgment without knowing all the facts. The bottom line is that I don't think this woman was out shopping for a lawsuit. She received a horrible injury, but the facts are so facially ludicrious it is easy for people to immediately wave the self-accountability banner.

We certainly agree in part. Most people do not follow these things after the initial press reports and don't know how the judaical system usually handles them. Many outrageous lawsuits do get dismissed, but just hearing about them being filed draws howls. The vast majority of the time the system works, if not at cost. What I can't stand is everyone bitching about things like the McDonald's lawsuit but then think up creative ways to avoid jury duty. If you don't like what you hear about jury awards or criminal verdicts, then simply serve on the next jury you are summoned to and encourage all your friends to do the same. Believe it or not, lawyers from both sides want intelligent informed jurors. Something other then postal workers, school teachers and retirees would be nice to see (not that they aren't intelligent or informed).

 

[wink]

I think the real debate here is whether it is "McDonald's" or "MacDonald's"

Oops. No debate, just stupidity. Speed spell checking wasn't my event in high school. Wait a minute, we didn't have spell check, or even computers when I ws in high school.

 

[Tyler]

All I could think about was all the doodoo chunks and *ahem* other stuff this bitch has left behind in other thongs she's tried on.

She should be sued for being a health hazard...and for being GROSSly negligent.

Oh, and there's no "a" in McDonalds. This is a lifelong debate I've had with my friends -- "It's MICK-f*cking-DONALDS, Dave!!" :icon_tong

 

[Huggy Bear]

I just read way more than I ever cared to about the case. You are right and I am wrong about the temperature at which coffee should be served. Reasons that swayed the jury to favor her included
-700 previous burn cases with lawsuits and claims settled against mcdonald's for $500,000
-It was accepted that MCd's coffee is served 20-30 degrees hotter than comepetitors
-the shriners burn institute had warned them to reduce the temperature of their coffee

On the other hand
-for every burn reported or claimed 24 million other hot drinks are sold without a problem.

My now (slightly) more educated opinion: It was still a silly lawsuit, but not quite as simple or transparent as the media led one to believe. Apparently it is still a big talking point in law education circles.

 

[wink]

Apparently it is still a big talking point in law education circles.

Ah ya...full disclosure, I just read a lot about this case in one of my wife's law publications. I'm not so nerdy I run around with this kind of thing in my head .

 

[limeyfish]

Intersting stuff. Also did a case study on the McDonald's coffee case as part of a business ethics class. I started off very much on the side of this being an example or tort law gone mad and ended-up siding with the women who was burned. What turned the trick for me was that if an employee was handling 180 degree liquid, a whole piss-pot full of safety equipment would be required (face shield, apron, gauntlet gloves and splash guards on the shoes) to handle it "safely". A resonable person would not expect to receive 3rd degree burns from coffee.

http://www.centerjd.org/free/mythbusters-free/MB_mcdonalds.htm

 

[wink]

A resonable person would not expect to receive 3rd degree burns from coffee.

http://www.centerjd.org/free/mythbusters-free/MB_mcdonalds.htm

And you won't in an ordinary accidental spill. Just so you know. Your link is to the Center of Justice and Democracy. It is an organization of Trial Lawyers (Plaintiffs) that are against alltort reform (that is a CJD statement)because it may hurt their wallet. I didn't actually read the article linked, so it may in fact be fair. But it is coming from a very powerful advocacy group that is looking out for their own wealth no matter what they say about the poor little old ladies that need to sue the big money grubbing corporations, so I doubt it. I hope your paper was based on more thorough research.

 

[CDOG]

And you won't in an ordinary accidental spill. Just so you know. Your link is to the Center of Justice and Democracy. It is an organization of Trial Lawyers (Plaintiffs) that are against alltort reform (that is a CJD statement)because it may hurt their wallet. I didn't actually read the article linked, so it may in fact be fair. But it is coming from a very powerful advocacy group that is looking out for their own wealth no matter what they say about the poor little old ladies that need to sue the big money grubbing corporations, so I doubt it. I hope your paper was based on more thorough research.

Ready Fire Aim.

 

[villanelle]

While I definitely agree that there are two sides to every story, this is still ridiculous. Regardless of her age, or whathaveyou, a customer bought coffee, and spilled it on herself. If the cup failed and the coffee came out of the bottom, that is one thing. But I feel secure in saying that the expectation of any normal person when we purchase coffee is that it will be hot, or we will be pissed because its cold (Ice coffee and other variations aside, of course). All in all, I don't see the complaint.

This really is a reflection on American society. No one takes responsibility for anything anymore, least of all their own actions. I was in Ireland in 2005, and I visited the Cliffs of Moher http://www.cliffsofmoher.ie/. These cliffs are over 700 feet above the surf at their base. I think I saw one sign and there was a small stone wall. If those cliffs were in CONUS, there would be fences, people walking around, signs and placards, etc. Its just a difference in culture, and I for one think that is a big problem with Americans in general right now.

/Threadjack

The US would win a landslide gold medal in the Learned Helplessness event. We spend so much time protecting people from themselves and their own idiocy that they become unaware that they should be doing that themselves. When we say that the RV manufacturer must warn people not to take a nap in the back during their drive, what we are really telling people is that they don't need to think for themselves and that they can and should rely on everyone else to do it for them. Without warnings, notes, and cautions for every conceivable permutation of life, they can't function because we've allowed to atrophy their ability to analyze and assess situations.

 

[wink]

... what we are really telling people is that they don't need ot think for themselves and that they can and should rely on everyone else to do it for them. Without warnings, notes, and cautions for every conceivable permutation of life, they can't function because we've allowed to atrophy their ability to analyze and assess situations.

And every day we slide further down that slippery slope. Every generation gets worse as they come to expect more of other people to protect them. Our children will see the warnings, placards, OSHA regs and outrageous torts as the ordinary. So in their adulthood, little additional change seems like nothing to be concerned over. So the slide continues. Every generation gets more helpless, less self reliant and less responsible for their own actions.

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

The dumb get dumber is the way I sum up the reasoning for all these things.

 

[CDOG]

I was in Ireland in 2005, and I visited the Cliffs of Moher http://www.cliffsofmoher.ie/. These cliffs are over 700 feet above the surf at their base. I think I saw one sign and there was a small stone wall. If those cliffs were in CONUS, there would be fences, people walking around, signs and placards, etc.
/Threadjack

I haven't ever been to Yosemite to climb Half-Dome, but I bet there are not fences, guards, etc. The danger is open and obvious. The danger is not so obvious when the kid hands you a nearly boiling cup of coffee. Everyone is quick to say "accountability for your own actions" - but what was that lady supposed to do? She was scalded instantaneously. I guess she deserved it for being stupid enough to take the lid off a ridiculously hot cup someone handed her.

Maybe her fault was wearing the wrong clothes... How many people plan what they are going to wear to McD's based on the off chance that spilled coffee will cripple you? More importantly, how foreseeable is it to McD's that a customer won't be wearing a hot-suit?

As nauseous as it might make you, just take a glance through the facts in the "loathsome" article posted earlier.