USN ASW Nerds Rejoice!

[MIDNJAC]

Not Boeing specific necessarily, just P-8 specific. But it’s a similar concept to JMPS. And PID definitely not hot, but if you mess it up it will definitely fuck you!

He just needs to know if it is on a JMPS tough book and if you can still drop kick it across the flight line? I see you guys with your pelican cases and backpacks trying to outrun my 15 knot taxi across the whidbey P-8 line that I now need to transit to get to the runway. I like to use min afterburner going around the corner and up the hill.

 

[Waveoff]

I have never used JMPS through my time at the FRS, sea tour, or shore tour.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Well fed crew!

 

[PhrogPhlyer]

Well fed crew!

Getting the most out of the the ever expanding flight suit.

 

[Griz882]

Well fed crew!

Well, look at the size of that crewman’s lunch bucket on the left!

 

[Mos]

Well, look at the size of that crewman’s lunch bucket on the left!

That's a cleaning kit.

 

[Griz882]

That's a cleaning kit.

I know…it was a joke.

 

[hscs]

Time to put them on PMR.

 

[Spekkio]

Couldn’t agree more with this. In addition, pay hasn’t kept pace with inflation. So, you can be a barista and make nearly the same amount as an apprentice. Additionally, said barista doesn’t need to clear a drug test or security clearance check.

We also don’t have a good foreman cadre. You need this as much as skilled labor. We have all seen the shop without a CPO that’s run by the newly frocked PO1. That’s what’s going on.

To complicate matters, shop classes disappeared so even basic apprentice training has to start at a lower level.

We also got punch drunk on coding. AI can build code, but it can’t rebuild a motor.

There's a lot of boomer media talking points in this that don't hold up to reality.

The closest analogue the U.S. has to vintage manufacturing jobs is Amazon. They are notorious for poor / controlling working conditions despite the fact that they pay extremely competitively. Anyone who worked in manufacturing / warehouses in the 1940s - 1960s would kill to have the quality of life Amazon offers.

People were encouraged to move out of manufacturing because typing at a type writer (and later a computer) in a climate controlled office with freedom to use the bathroom and take lunch whenever you want beats the hell out of operating a machine press for 8 hours a day with extremely controlled / managed breaks.

Also, the pay scale for trades / manufacturing looks great for single people under age 25, but everyone ignores the fact that it's extremely flat and insufficient to support a family of 4. Not too different from our enlisted pay structure. It's also hell on the body.

Meanwhile, the unemployment rate of college graduates under 25 is around 5% with an average salary of $55,000... compared to double-digits for those who didn't go to college with an average salary around $35,000. Fast forward to where these people are in their 40s and 50s and there is a HUGE pay discrepancy between those who earned 4 year degrees and those who didn't.

Jon Stewart had some economists on a few months ago and their take about economies was that the progression goes from agrarian (mostly poor) -> manufacturing -> service / business owner. Manufacturing is never coming back as a prosperous career for Americans, and neither is farming. The former will be performed by machines / robotics and the latter by illegal / undocumented (choose your favorite euphamism) immigrants.

Now, I'm a firm believer that there's no shame in working, no matter the job. If my son is working in manufacturing at 19 to pay his way through college, I'll consider myself a successful parent. However, if he dropped out of college and is still operating a machine press for $18-20 / hour at 40, I fucked up. And also... at that salary you might as well work at Walmart and not destroy your body in the process.

YMMV.

 

[Spekkio]

This is one of the big things Korean and Japanese shipyards do. They invest their funds into developing communities for their workforce. And yeah, a skilled blue collar worker can make it a real career with a middle class life.

I can't speak for the Koreans, but this is a rose-tinted take on how the Japanese treat their workers.

Japanese culture is extremely strict and the expectation is that you will be the best [insert whatever] there ever is, regardless of the job. And if they aren't, their bosses will berate and abuse them into it. And if the workers quit, they are shamed and have trouble finding a better job because they can't get a reference.

Anologue in the U.S. would be that your boss at Target yells at you non-stop for not being friendly and fast enough, and when you quit your 'toxic boss' you basically get blacklisted from any job that would pay equal or better.

Then after you put in a 10-12 hour work day, you have to get inebriated with your boss to kiss ass. Because working 35-40 hours a week is only part-time.

That's not even getting into the fact that you can't move up if you don't have the right family lineage.

I would never in a million years want the U.S. to mimic the Japanese work culture. Yes, they will do better quality of work on our ships than any other nation... but implementing their culture would be a gross violation of what we consider basic human civil rights. Luckily, it's impossible because we don't believe in hereditary social hierarchies.

 

[Griz882]

There's a lot of boomer media talking points in this that don't hold up to reality.

The closest analogue the U.S. has to vintage manufacturing jobs is Amazon. They are notorious for poor / controlling working conditions despite the fact that they pay extremely competitively. Anyone who worked in manufacturing / warehouses in the 1940s - 1960s would kill to have the quality of life Amazon offers.

People were encouraged to move out of manufacturing because typing at a type writer (and later a computer) in a climate controlled office with freedom to use the bathroom and take lunch whenever you want beats the hell out of operating a machine press for 8 hours a day with extremely controlled / managed breaks.

Also, the pay scale for trades / manufacturing looks great for single people under age 25, but everyone ignores the fact that it's extremely flat and insufficient to support a family of 4. Not too different from our enlisted pay structure. It's also hell on the body.

Meanwhile, the unemployment rate of college graduates under 25 is around 5% with an average salary of $55,000... compared to double-digits for those who didn't go to college with an average salary around $35,000. Fast forward to where these people are in their 40s and 50s and there is a HUGE pay discrepancy between those who earned 4 year degrees and those who didn't.

Jon Stewart had some economists on a few months ago and their take about economies was that the progression goes from agrarian (mostly poor) -> manufacturing -> service / business owner. Manufacturing is never coming back as a prosperous career for Americans, and neither is farming. The former will be performed by machines / robotics and the latter by illegal / undocumented (choose your favorite euphamism) immigrants.

Now, I'm a firm believer that there's no shame in working, no matter the job. If my son is working in manufacturing at 19 to pay his way through college, I'll consider myself a successful parent. However, if he dropped out of college and is still operating a machine press for $18-20 / hour at 40, I fucked up. And also... at that salary you might as well work at Walmart and not destroy your body in the process.

YMMV.

Well, if Microsoft is even half right most of those $55,000 a year jobs will disappear in the next few years. https://fortune.com/2025/07/31/micr...act-teaching-office-jobs-college-gen-z-grads/
I do believe the old saw about “a degree = more money” is about to go away and change to “an engineering degree (or other hard science) = more money.” Jon Stewart’s economist is wrong, unless we develop a new Star Trek society where people work for the good of people and food comes out of a replicator free. Technology is about (next 20 years or so) to change the world in a way not seen since the Industrial Revolution.

 

[Spekkio]

Well, if Microsoft is even half right most of those $55,000 a year jobs will disappear in the next few years. https://fortune.com/2025/07/31/micr...act-teaching-office-jobs-college-gen-z-grads/
I do believe the old saw about “a degree = more money” is about to go away and change to “an engineering degree (or other hard science) = more money.” Jon Stewart’s economist is wrong, unless we develop a new Star Trek society where people work for the good of people and food comes out of a replicator free. Technology is about (next 20 years or so) to change the world in a way not seen since the Industrial Revolution.

That's all speculation.

And still doesn't address the fact that upward career progression in your 30s-50s is exponentially better for college graduates.

 

[BigRed389]

I can't speak for the Koreans, but this is a rose-tinted take on how the Japanese treat their workers.

Japanese culture is extremely strict and the expectation is that you will be the best [insert whatever] there ever is, regardless of the job. And if they aren't, their bosses will berate and abuse them into it. And if the workers quit, they are shamed and have trouble finding a better job because they can't get a reference.

Anologue in the U.S. would be that your boss at Target yells at you non-stop for not being friendly and fast enough, and when you quit your 'toxic boss' you basically get blacklisted from any job that would pay equal or better.

Then after you put in a 10-12 hour work day, you have to get inebriated with your boss to kiss ass. Because working 35-40 hours a week is only part-time.

That's not even getting into the fact that you can't move up if you don't have the right family lineage.

I would never in a million years want the U.S. to mimic the Japanese work culture. Yes, they will do better quality of work on our ships than any other nation... but implementing their culture would be a gross violation of what we consider basic human civil rights. Luckily, it's impossible because we don't believe in hereditary social hierarchies.

Ok…maybe? What I’ve heard of work hours and quality of life for JMSDF definitely sounded horrific.

But also I know people who have worked with Japanese shipyards (FDNF-J) and have universally said they have the best quality work, and just as important, none of them looked at their blue collar workforce and thought it was a human rights violation. US yardbirds are regularly pissing or shitting in the spaces they are working in, so I’m not sure they’ve actually got it that much better.

And I’m not talking about us emulating Japanese work culture, especially business/office culture. I’m talking about the level of investment and involvement their shipbuilding companies put into their communities. From a quality of life perspective, I can say everything I’ve seen in US yards absolutely would make me question the decision to make a career of being a tradesman for a shipyard. But also used to be you could have a career in manufacturing and actually support a family, have a home and car, retire with a pension, etc…

 

[Spekkio]

Ok…maybe? What I’ve heard of work hours and quality of life for JMSDF definitely sounded horrific.

But also I know people who have worked with Japanese shipyards (FDNF-J) and have universally said they have the best quality work, and just as important, none of them looked at their blue collar workforce and thought it was a human rights violation. US yardbirds are regularly pissing or shitting in the spaces they are working in, so I’m not sure they’ve actually got it that much better.

And I’m not talking about us emulating Japanese work culture, especially business/office culture. I’m talking about the level of investment and involvement their shipbuilding companies put into their communities. From a quality of life perspective, I can say everything I’ve seen in US yards absolutely would make me question the decision to make a career of being a tradesman for a shipyard. But also used to be you could have a career in manufacturing and actually support a family, have a home and car, retire with a pension, etc…

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

If you want to have Japanese quality of work, our shipyard workers must be indentured servants working under the close supervision of foremen who expect perfection and can impose severe personal cost if that standard isn't met... because the white hats will get fired with a quickness if that standard isn't met.

 

[hscs]

There's a lot of boomer media talking points in this that don't hold up to reality.

The closest analogue the U.S. has to vintage manufacturing jobs is Amazon. They are notorious for poor / controlling working conditions despite the fact that they pay extremely competitively. Anyone who worked in manufacturing / warehouses in the 1940s - 1960s would kill to have the quality of life Amazon offers.

People were encouraged to move out of manufacturing because typing at a type writer (and later a computer) in a climate controlled office with freedom to use the bathroom and take lunch whenever you want beats the hell out of operating a machine press for 8 hours a day with extremely controlled / managed breaks.

Also, the pay scale for trades / manufacturing looks great for single people under age 25, but everyone ignores the fact that it's extremely flat and insufficient to support a family of 4. Not too different from our enlisted pay structure. It's also hell on the body.

Meanwhile, the unemployment rate of college graduates under 25 is around 5% with an average salary of $55,000... compared to double-digits for those who didn't go to college with an average salary around $35,000. Fast forward to where these people are in their 40s and 50s and there is a HUGE pay discrepancy between those who earned 4 year degrees and those who didn't.

Jon Stewart had some economists on a few months ago and their take about economies was that the progression goes from agrarian (mostly poor) -> manufacturing -> service / business owner. Manufacturing is never coming back as a prosperous career for Americans, and neither is farming. The former will be performed by machines / robotics and the latter by illegal / undocumented (choose your favorite euphamism) immigrants.

Now, I'm a firm believer that there's no shame in working, no matter the job. If my son is working in manufacturing at 19 to pay his way through college, I'll consider myself a successful parent. However, if he dropped out of college and is still operating a machine press for $18-20 / hour at 40, I fucked up. And also... at that salary you might as well work at Walmart and not destroy your body in the process.

YMMV.

What‘s a boomer TP?