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USAF to USN Inter-Service Transfer for Color Vision

ARAMP1

Aviator Extraordinaire
pilot
None
Damn. All that work. Sorry to hear it didn't work out for you. Interesting that it made it all the way to the numbered AF and the commander went against recommendations. With such a bottle neck in the training pipeline now they're probably turning away guys that don't need waivers.

Quick story: I failed the flight physical right after I got my wings for vision in a bad way. As a hobby, I work on cars and motorcycles and generally anything mechanical and a few days before my physical, I had bought a new auto-darkening welding helmet. It took me a while to work out the settings and in the process I lightly burnt my eyes. If you're not familiar, it's almost like a sunburn. If it's not too bad (and it wasn't), it will heal in a week or two just like a sunburn. Well, I couldn't read any of the close or far eye charts or see the depth perception circles. I don't even think I tried the color panels. I asked to come back in two weeks, but that wasn't possible. Lucky for me, I already had my wings so they scheduled me for a full eye screening at Brooks AFB, but the appointment wasn't for 6 months. I volunteered to come back in to the local clinic and take the tests to prove that I wouldn't need to go, but they weren't having it. Of course, when I went to the full screening at Brooks my eyes were healed and I passed all the tests. The staff down there even commented on how it was a waste. But, that's the AF for you.

Best of luck to you on the Navy side. You don't know it now, but the 11AF/CC probably did you a favor.
 

bmather9

Member
So almost a year later and here I am again. LXIX reached out to me and I responded tonight with the below information. Maybe I can help some folks out later down the road and they'll get lucky! Who knows?

"Hey, thanks for reaching out. Sad to hear about another story like this though...

I actually just got the response to my exception to policy last month. I made it through my squadron, group, wing, and to the 11 AF/CC where it was denied and stopped.

Putting together the exception to policy was an extremely long process. I had some help/documents/templates from some people that had started them, and I started mine. No one is really going to help you get the ETP done other than yourself, at least I learned that. I had to talk and almost teach everyone through the process while learning it myself, write the letters, the arguments, the stories, the everything. Then just get it coordinated for approval and signatures. It took almost 6 months from start to finish and then another 4 after that for it to be approved through the chain to the point where it got denied last month. My WG/CC called me and told me when he found out.

I did have a ton of help from leadership throughout the wing backing me, signing letters, and getting me into simulators with NVG's and what not for practical testing on the displays and HUD and everything though. They were all willing to sign my documents and definitely gave me the ammo I needed to have for a decent fight. They got me in the F-22 and C-17 sims and I had no issues seeing anything on displays or HUDs and they signed letters saying they had gone with me and that I had no issues.. (My WG/CC, WG/CV, and OG/CC that is)

I thought I had a strong package and argument as well. I just don't think they want to open the can of worms with the color vision thing for anyone. The only option for me now would be to switch services, as I'm pretty sure my chances of flying for the Air Force are now squashed.

I would love to help you out with anything you need or want if you are trying to do one. It's a lot of work for a pretty obvious outcome and I knew it going in. I just couldn't leave any options on the table so I pressed on with it to make them tell me no one more time or maybe get lucky with a yes. I highly recommend doing it if this was your dream and you want to be able to say you've tried everything.

As for the Navy transfer stuff, I've got some contacts that I could probably get you in touch with to help you learn that process too. Just let me know and best of luck."

-Clint

I feel your pain. My ETP was also denied at 11 AF/CC after I fought it for 8 months; I think it's just far enough out of reach that they can reject it without really having to deal with it face to face. I had asked to deliver my package to the CC in person, but it didn't happen.
 

clintaf

New Member
Crazy thing is I will be seeing the 11 AF/CC on Monday as a POC for his visit to Hickam. I've thought about if I should talk to him about it or anything.
 

bmather9

Member
Crazy thing is I will be seeing the 11 AF/CC on Monday as a POC for his visit to Hickam. I've thought about if I should talk to him about it or anything.

I wouldn't pass up the opportunity. I lost a lot of respect for the USAF leadership as a whole during my situation, especially because they had already PCS'd me to Laughlin and then wasted 8 months of my life. I can't be too harsh, because I still work with quite a few former USAF O-6's who are great leaders, but the USAF leadership culture is what has put rules like this in place. The leadership seems to have no qualms disqualifying great people who are just as capable because of some poorly understood vision anomalies. Some more interesting info in this thread: http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/military/56943-color-vision-requirements-af-3.html

Note: I mistakenly said in the previous post that my ETP was denied by 11 AF/CC; in reality it was whatever AF/CC is over Laughlin AFB, but I can't even remember.
 

Noggin

New Member
Clint got most of it. I provided him with all my documents as I figured out the process. I had rounded up about 7 of us at various bases to change the policies. Everyone lost. Badly. While I'd consider myself the ringleader on the latest push over the last year, the Air Force went so far as to start falsifying my medical records (I had verifiable proof that it was intentional) and adding "conditions" that I do not have (per my civilian eye doctors now).

Despite a truly strong effort to change everything, the Air Force docs are maniacally determined to prevent anyone who is not color perfect from flying in the USAF, all evidence to the contrary be damned.

I tell anyone I know who wants to join the air force to fly to get an anomaloscope done if they can afford it. Since it will hit some 10% of men, it's worth knowing if the USAF will let you fly before you can't turn back or take another route like the Navy.

I got out in February when I requested separation after fighting the USAF for nearly a year on the color vision thing. Haven't looked back. I still have my PPL and fly on the civilian side. It's not an F-22 or C-17, but I still get to enjoy blue skies on my own terms.
 

Noggin

New Member
I saw the AETC/CC after I separated (my spouse is an IP in the flying wing at Randolph) while at the O-club for a Crud tournament one day. I introduced myself since he knew my case and let him know I got out. He had no clue....and really I don't think he gave a damn. I'm with bmather on all this; USAF leadership couldn't give a damn when I submitted evidence of foul play from the eye docs via Congressional inquiry. So long as they meet their numbers, they don't care who completes the pipeline.
 

JVA

Active Member
Hey guys, John here. Was picked up as an OTS Pilot Select in March of this year, and just graduated from UT Austin with a Mech Engr degree. Went to Randolph for FC1 in March and got 70/70 on my CCT. They let me retest and my scores were: 70/90, 90/70 and 70/70 again. Unfortunately after that I was DQ'ed. I discussed options with my recruiter and looked at flight engineer, however I am already a civ pilot so my passion is flying. Currently going through Naval OCS application for SNA, and taking ASTB on Thursday. I had 99/99/99 on the AFOQT aviation sections and the rest were mid to high 90's. Waiting on my AF med file to clear and get approval in TN. Never had an issue with color vision, and the ophthalmologists at UT health science center in SA gave me a barrage of tests, every one of which I got perfect scores on. Any advice or input on this process?
 

Noggin

New Member
I can conclusively say that the AF will block you from rated fields. Period. My story was like yours but I was too advanced in my career to adjust course. I'm a happy civilian now. Pursue the Navy if you want to fly, the Air Force will not let you.
 

JVA

Active Member
I can conclusively say that the AF will block you from rated fields. Period. My story was like yours but I was too advanced in my career to adjust course. I'm a happy civilian now. Pursue the Navy if you want to fly, the Air Force will not let you.

Thanks for the advice Noggin. Yeah the AF DQ'ed me on the spot, so I am currently applying SNA for a board estimated for August.
 

bmather9

Member
I can conclusively say that the AF will block you from rated fields. Period. My story was like yours but I was too advanced in my career to adjust course. I'm a happy civilian now. Pursue the Navy if you want to fly, the Air Force will not let you.

I concur with Noggin. There are a few guys floating around who have successfully made the transfer to the Navy after being DQ'd for color vision in the USAF. At the time, they didn't have a spot for me in the Navy so I ended up in the Army National Guard flying Blackhawks.
 

JVA

Active Member
Do you guys know if the Navy tests with the plates one eye at a time, or both eyes at the same time? When the AF tried to push me through for an FCII for RPA, they tested the PIP one eye at a time. Curious how the navy does it. Reading the NAMI aeromedical waiver guide said nothing about monocular testing, so I am assuming it is with both eyes. Thanks
 

BleedGreen

Well-Known Member
pilot
Do you guys know if the Navy tests with the plates one eye at a time, or both eyes at the same time? When the AF tried to push me through for an FCII for RPA, they tested the PIP one eye at a time. Curious how the navy does it. Reading the NAMI aeromedical waiver guide said nothing about monocular testing, so I am assuming it is with both eyes. Thanks
Your assumption is correct. They Navy does not utilize monocular testing with regards to color vision.
 

gwong626

New Member
Good and Bad News

In the mean time, I'm still fighting color vision stuff in the USAF. My desired backup careers were the likes of Navigator, Special Ops, or Test Pilot School (as a Flight Test Engineer) all of which I am now disqualified for solely because of color vision. Getting accepted to any of these would be difficult, but at least I had a goal to shoot for. My FCIII physical for these jobs has been trying to get approved for 4 months now and I was even tested for color vision twice (once at the physical in May and again after I PCSed in August) both of which I passed. I'm sure good color vision is very important for all of these jobs, but something is seriously wrong here when I am qualified for these same jobs in all of the other services.

For starters, I really appreciate the sharing of these experiences. It sheds light on what is to come for myself. I am a civilian CSO select for USAF OTS, and I am currently awaiting an official DQ for a mild color deficiency from the CCT. My desired back up career was also to become an Flight Test Engineer (via TPS). Is it true that I'm also DQ'd from being an FTE in the USAF as well? Could someone share the regs for that? I've been scouring the web for the FCIII standards, and haven't come up with anything clear.
 

bmather9

Member
For starters, I really appreciate the sharing of these experiences. It sheds light on what is to come for myself. I am a civilian CSO select for USAF OTS, and I am currently awaiting an official DQ for a mild color deficiency from the CCT. My desired back up career was also to become an Flight Test Engineer (via TPS). Is it true that I'm also DQ'd from being an FTE in the USAF as well? Could someone share the regs for that? I've been scouring the web for the FCIII standards, and haven't come up with anything clear.

It's been quite a while since I dug through the regs on this, but when I was disqualified it was for Pilot, NAV, ABM, RPAs, Flight Test Engineer, and Special Ops. I did read one anecdotal story about a guy getting into USAF special ops with a color deficiency, so it might be possible. I looked quite seriously into Flight Test Engineer as my backup plan, since that's what I already had experience in at the time, but it was not possible. You may have better luck, but it seemed to me that in the USAF aircrew waiver guide said it was possible to get a waiver for FCIII from the career field manager. I remember pushing for this while I was at Edwards AFB, working side-by-side with FTEs everyday, but never made any significant breakthroughs. I also tried talking to people at TPS, but got nowhere.

In case you haven't kept up, I'm currently an Army National Guard Blackhawk pilot and an FTE with Gulfstream, so I think it's pretty clear that the USAF is out to lunch on this one.

If you're already stuck going into the USAF, then try everything you can and you might find something I didn't, or something may have changed since I left, but beyond that, your best bet is to get out unless you find another career field you want to pursue. Maybe with more focused effort on the FCIII waiver you'll have a better chance; I was mostly focused on being a pilot.

Check out the attached waiver guide, but beware its from 2009.
 

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  • USAF Waiver Guide Dec 2009.pdf
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